logo

Live Production Software Forums


Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
j1mco  
#1 Posted : Monday, March 2, 2015 11:51:06 AM(UTC)
j1mco

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/4/2014(UTC)
Posts: 16
Location: London

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Having some very strange problems regarding a codec somewhere. Testing using 1080p60 and 1080p23.94.

Areas of red text are showing a lot more compression than anything else. The fullscreen preview shows a perfect image. It also looks like things are being encoded in 8-bit instead of 10-bit, with clear gamut issues.

The attached capture demonstrates the issue we're getting.

We're also getting the same issue when outputing via Decklink 4k to another Decklink 4k input. This card supports 10-bit.

We used a process of elimination to determine this is definitely coming from vmix/codec being used somewhere.

If we take the video output from the fullscreen HDMI monitor output and capture that again, we don't see the problem!

We have also added k-lite mega pack, just to be sure we've optimised codecs as much as we can - it didn't fix the issue.

Does anyone else have this issue? We're at wits end trying everything.
j1mco attached the following image(s):
Capture.PNG (545kb) downloaded 29 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
admin  
#2 Posted : Monday, March 2, 2015 12:27:09 PM(UTC)
admin

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administrators
Joined: 1/13/2010(UTC)
Posts: 5,208
Man
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Was thanked: 4290 time(s) in 1520 post(s)
Hi,

What recording format is that image taken from?
vMix outputs as YUV 4:2:2 color space, but the image looks closer to 4:2:0 which indicates the recording format being used only supports that format.

Perhaps a screenshot showing the image difference side by side would help as well as the full recording settings being used.

Regards,

Martin
vMix
j1mco  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, March 3, 2015 4:35:49 AM(UTC)
j1mco

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/4/2014(UTC)
Posts: 16
Location: London

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Thanks Martin!

That's a screengrab of the actual stream itself (Twitch), however the output from a Blackmagic 4k -> Blackmagic 4k input gives the same thing - which should be 4:2:2 right?

I'm not in the studio at the moment, but I'll ask one of the guys to grab me a screenshot of the native fullscreen output also - which will show a nice crisp image of all colours,

We were keen to output with the Blackmagic 4k due to it's own encoding features, and we'd like to avoid having to capture a seperate HDMI fullscreen output (feel that's a bit of a hash),

James

j1mco  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, March 3, 2015 5:26:50 AM(UTC)
j1mco

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/4/2014(UTC)
Posts: 16
Location: London

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Comparative screenshots attached
j1mco attached the following image(s):
Blackmagic-Output-Capture.PNG (645kb) downloaded 29 time(s).
Raw-Vmix-Fullscreen.png (959kb) downloaded 27 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
admin  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, March 3, 2015 6:25:17 AM(UTC)
admin

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administrators
Joined: 1/13/2010(UTC)
Posts: 5,208
Man
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Was thanked: 4290 time(s) in 1520 post(s)
Thanks for that, I have run some tests and the unfortunately the text pixelation is consistent with the 4:2:2 color space.
This shows up particularly with solid red colors, as shown in the examples below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling

And discussed here:

http://video.stackexchan...-tv-and-videos-on-the-pc

Pretty much all streaming providers including Twitch convert to 4:2:0 and then to H264 so it will be even more evident
in that video.

If your final output will be Twitch, then there is not much you can do i'm afraid and similar results will appear in the output regardless of program used.

Regards,

Martin
vMix



thanks 1 user thanked admin for this useful post.
j1mco on 3/3/2015(UTC)
j1mco  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, March 3, 2015 7:03:32 AM(UTC)
j1mco

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/4/2014(UTC)
Posts: 16
Location: London

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
That's interesting, thanks!

Why would the output from the Decklink 4k also be doing this then?

SDI Video Output
1 x 10-bit SD/HD/2K/4K. Supports 6 Gb/s 4:2:2 and 3 Gb/s 4:4:4

If we take the vmix "fullscreen" output from HDMI into a HDMI capture card, we're getting a perfect image.

But as you'd probably agree, this is not the ideal way to do things with the software setup.
admin  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, March 3, 2015 7:49:04 AM(UTC)
admin

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administrators
Joined: 1/13/2010(UTC)
Posts: 5,208
Man
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Was thanked: 4290 time(s) in 1520 post(s)
You will likely see better handling of the red in the fullscreen output because PC displays are RGB output not YUV
so when captured on the other end it is still RGB.

Problem is as soon as you record this to a compressed format or stream it to the web you will see the same handling of red on the outputs
so there is not much to gain by trying to keep RGB on the capture card if you will still be streaming it.

Regards,

Martin
vMix
j1mco  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, March 3, 2015 7:53:09 AM(UTC)
j1mco

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/4/2014(UTC)
Posts: 16
Location: London

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
That makes sense, thanks.

Is there anyway possible to output RGB via the Decklink 4k? This would be really good for us!

The blackmagic does support this:
SDI Color Precision
8, 10-bit YUV 4:2:2 and 8, 10, 12-bit RGB 4:4:4 in HD, 2K and 4K.

But when we try to set RGB in vmix settings, it errors saying it must be YUV
j1mco  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, March 4, 2015 7:01:23 AM(UTC)
j1mco

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/4/2014(UTC)
Posts: 16
Location: London

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Is RGB output out of the question?
admin  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, March 4, 2015 7:54:05 AM(UTC)
admin

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administrators
Joined: 1/13/2010(UTC)
Posts: 5,208
Man
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Was thanked: 4290 time(s) in 1520 post(s)
Sorry, RGB is not supported with External Output in vMix when using the Decklink 4k.
j1mco  
#11 Posted : Monday, March 9, 2015 8:02:58 AM(UTC)
j1mco

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/4/2014(UTC)
Posts: 16
Location: London

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Would it be possible to actually set 10bit 4:2:2 color space instead then? We can't figure out what is setting this.

Users browsing this topic
Guest
Similar Topics
New Vmix codec issue (VMX1) (General Discussion)
by comporder1 3/21/2019 1:20:47 AM(UTC)
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.