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Rig construction guidelines
Rank: Newbie
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Joined: 7/19/2010(UTC) Posts: 6 Location: Swansea, Il
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Ok, this maybe a somewhat stupid question, but I am looking for some parameters on configuration of system to use for a vMix system. To be honest, I haven't done much more than play around with vmix - so the answers to these questions might be obvious to someone who has experience with it, but these are the breaks...
The most important goal for me is stability. I need something to be 100% rock-stable. Spending a few $$$ extra for that stability isn't a big issue. Also, at this point (at least until multi-channel recording is supported), my plan is to use the system JUST as a video mixer - so no recording at all (I will handle that out-board).
So, let's just get to it.
I am looking to handle 4 HD-SDI inputs (so I am planning 2 BMD DeckLink 3D Extreme cards - the ones with dual inputs on them). I would then want to use an HD-SDI output (at least, for the moment) - so I will plan to add another BMD card (probably another 3D extreme - just to be consistent). I will need to "play" some video files, and will have quite a number of overlay graphics (i.e. lower 3rd's title - etc). I will be making a LOT of use of the color correction capabilities (so, assume that this will be active on all 4 inputs).
Here are my high-level questions:
1. What is the most important criteria? Is it CPU or graphics card? For example, would there be any benefit in building a dual-cpu system (i.e. workstation-class) instead of simply a very-fast single chip box? I am, honestly, thinking of using either the Corei7 980x, or some of the new server-class chips (the 5600 series).
2. If graphics are critically important, then should I be leaning toward the Nvidia boards or the ATI boards? Anything specific to consider here? (for example, I am really planning to use two monitors - one for the "operator" and one for a local program output, if possible).
3. What size of monitor makes sense for the operator? Or, in other words, does the system support multiple displays (i.e. the ability to use dual monitors - one for the operator and one for preview only)? If not, is this likely to be supported in the future (today, I run 2 displays for the video operator - one that has just preview - and one that has just program out - but, since a hardware mixer is in place today, there is no need to interact beyond the on-screen display).
Just looking for some recommendations before jumping into this - I would really hate to spend $$$ on a rig, and then find out that it isn't going to be enough - or that the next version is going to triple the requirements.
Also - one final question - is there any tally support in the system? We aren't running one today - but the users would just LOVE to have this functionality).
Jeff :-)
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Rank: Administration
Groups: Administrators
Joined: 1/13/2010(UTC) Posts: 5,211 Location: Gold Coast, Australia Was thanked: 4301 time(s) in 1523 post(s)
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Hi Jeff,
In response to your questions:
1. If the system will not be used to record, then the Graphics card is the key component as far as performance is concerned. Any Core i7 CPU would be more than adequate. (older Core 2 Quad or Duo processors would be fine as well)
2. A recent mid-to-high-end NVIDIA Graphics Card is recommended. vMix supports displaying the program output on the second display.
3. The bigger the better, for example 2x 24" 1920x1080 displays. The vMix interface can be maximised to fill the entire screen, so that more inputs can be seen without scrolling.
The system should run Windows 7 in Aero Glass mode for the best performance and stability. Any background services or programs should be closed and/or disabled to prevent any interruptions.
As for being 100% stable, the system once built would need to be thoroughly tested with all the scenarios you are likely to use during a live production. (I.E running the system with all inputs and outputs running through vMix for 2+ hours) This will reveal any potential hardware conflicts or issues. If there are any software issues with vMix, I can work with you to resolve them promptly.
For the highest stability, server grade hardware such as an Intel Xeon processor and ECC memory could also be investigated. (Although CPU or Memory related errors are extremely rare)
EDIT: In regards to tally support. At this stage the focus is on ensuring the reliability of the current vMix feature set. Professional features such as tally support are expected in a future "Professional" version of vMix. To this end, I am always interested in hearing about what tally products are recommended so I can build a list of products to test and support.
Hope this helps,
Martin
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Rank: Newbie
Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/19/2010(UTC) Posts: 6 Location: Swansea, Il
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Interesting... so the graphics card is the key.... curious...
On the graphics card, then, you prefer (or can use) the Nvidia stuff (not complaining - just asking) (i.e. CUDA), or is this just a general "I prefer NVidia"? Is SLI of benefit here?
I suppose I am REALLY trying to understand the load involved here.
Now, I know that this may be asking a "sensitive question" - but what about the future? I would plan to use this rig for at least a few years - so I want to make sure that I am able to handle anything you are cooking up. So, any plans for OpenCL (or some other form of graphics offloading)? If so, any idea of what you think would be good?
BTW - I am fairly impressed that you can handle something this complex without getting CPU limited. I admire your coding skillz to do this. I (briefly) looked that the CutFour package - and they seemed to be VERY CPU limited. So, sounds impressive.
As to the tally, here is what I know (and I do not claim to be the uber-expert here):
Most tally systems (at least the ones that I am familiar with) usually interface with the mixer via GPIB (or serial) connection. The lights themselves are really nothing more than LED's that are directly powered from the interface cable. I will say this, we have been looking heavily at the DataVideo products (www.datavideo.us) and their tally system basically uses a 5-pin XLR connector that runs from a break-out box that is attached to their mixer via a GPIB interface cable. There are some "broadcast-grade" tally systems that use other interfaces - but most "just pro" grade systems are nothing more than relays connected to the mixer.
I would tend to think that, for yours, a simple USB connected relay-trigger would be adequate. Honestly, I am not the uber-USB guy - so I don't know if there is some HID type standard for this - but, honestly, whatever you wanted to use would be fine. I would envision a box with a USB port on one end, and a whole bunch (probably 32 or more) relay outputs (nothing super powerful - usually a simple 12v relay would be more than adequate).
I DO know that tally systems are usually mixer specific - there isn't some type of "standard" available. Even in the broadcast space, the vast majority are separated (meaning that the light is one element - and it is usually just hardwired to a relay interface unit that is specific to the mixer. The mixer company makes (or recommends) a tally interface - and then you just wire up (either with XLR or 1/4 connectors) to whatever tally you want to use. There are some very high-end systems out there (where they, for example, can flash the camera #) - but I don't know much about them.
The tally is then connected to the mixer preview and program outputs. If the operator, for example, selects camera 3 as the "next" (or preview) source, then one light is turned on. Then, when the operator transitions camera 3 to live (or program) source, then another light is turned on. Really, pretty simple operation.
Jeff :-)
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Rank: Administration
Groups: Administrators
Joined: 1/13/2010(UTC) Posts: 5,211 Location: Gold Coast, Australia Was thanked: 4301 time(s) in 1523 post(s)
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Hi Jeff,
vMix uses ordinary 3D acceleration to do the hard lifting. There were a couple of technical obsticles I had to work out to make this work well in the video mixing space, which is why I suspect other programs are still CPU limited.
There are no plans to make use of CUDA etc. The main reason for recommending NVIDIA is that it does a better job of handling 3D acceleration over multiple displays (i.e the vMix Interface and the Program Output)
If most tallys work on a simple relay trigger then it should be easy enough to build support for a USB relay device of some kind. That said, building hardware is beyond my expertise so I am hoping there is something off the shelf out there that can be supported.
Regards,
Martin
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