logo

Live Production Software Forums


Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
tgdzapa1  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 8:14:34 AM(UTC)
tgdzapa1

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/21/2014(UTC)
Posts: 81
Location: sportwebtv.be

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Hi

I'm looking for a cheap wireless solution for our 3 HDMI Cams
Cam: http://www.sony.de/pro/p...hd/hxr-mc2000e/overview/

I know that SDI-HD pro wireless systems costs around 5000 USD. Too much for us.


I discovered the following products:

http://www.gefen.com/kvm...80p-sr.jsp?prod_id=10709
http://www.bhphotovideo....ss_hdmi_transmitter.html
http://www.bhphotovideo...._multicast_wireless.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/...&hash=item27e93ffe48
http://www.link-mi.cn/pr...%20HDMI/12031223267.html

Does anyone have experience with such low budget products?

Thanks !

Patrick
TVIason  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:39:17 AM(UTC)
TVIason

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/7/2013(UTC)
Posts: 66
Location: Netherlands

Thanks: 21 times
Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 8 post(s)
i don't have any experiences with hdmi wireless transmitters, but does it have to be wirelles otherwise you could buy a hdmi to cat extender. So you can run a lot of cable. This is cheaper than transmitting wireless and maybe has more range
Rehan  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:24:25 AM(UTC)
Rehan

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/29/2013(UTC)
Posts: 54
Location: Mississauga, Canada

Thanks: 10 times
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
I have the Gefen wireless extender and also the Nyrius Aries Pro. Each of them have been used for about 30 hours total so far, and both of them work well at short distances. The Gefen device has been trouble-free at 10-15 feet, and the Nyrius Aries Pro has been okay at 20-25 feet away, but sometimes a bit flaky. Once, the connection was lost and other times there have been some artifacts in the video (maybe because there were people in the way, become obstacles between transmitter and receiver).

If you want good reliability without any video problems, I think about 15-20 feet is the limit. Beyond that, you'll probably get occasional issues.
h2video.nl  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:31:33 AM(UTC)
h2video.nl

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/7/2012(UTC)
Posts: 503
Man
Location: The Netherlands

Thanks: 9 times
Was thanked: 45 time(s) in 39 post(s)
i have good results with the nyrius, but as stated before, you have to keep a clear line of sight. i lost the sognal at the end of a recording when all people got up at once. so i keep both sender and receiver at a hight and also have plans for a simple dish to put behind the sender or receiver.

more than 30 meters direct and clear line of sight is the minimum and i also only use it on a b cam. critical and more permanent use i do with sdi.

stefan
tgdzapa1  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 12:01:52 PM(UTC)
tgdzapa1

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/21/2014(UTC)
Posts: 81
Location: sportwebtv.be

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
thanks all for inputs. I need a system for sport live production for a cam on a glidecam. should works?
h2video.nl  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, August 13, 2014 3:15:12 AM(UTC)
h2video.nl

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/7/2012(UTC)
Posts: 503
Man
Location: The Netherlands

Thanks: 9 times
Was thanked: 45 time(s) in 39 post(s)
could work! just test the system with the receiver placed central over the fieldobove the glidecam and connect it to a hdmi to sdi box and get the signal to whereever you are recording / mixing.

just make sure there is no obstruction between antenna and receiver and that you are able to reset the camera and receiver units (remote power off/on). a nyrius takes standard 5v usb power so you have lots of power options.

you could start testing woth a more simple approach and see what the results are. the nyrius will go for about $250 so its not a big risk.
stefan
h2video.nl  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, August 13, 2014 3:16:15 AM(UTC)
h2video.nl

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/7/2012(UTC)
Posts: 503
Man
Location: The Netherlands

Thanks: 9 times
Was thanked: 45 time(s) in 39 post(s)
and show us the results when you have it up and running...
stefan
tgdzapa1  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, August 13, 2014 4:37:04 AM(UTC)
tgdzapa1

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/21/2014(UTC)
Posts: 81
Location: sportwebtv.be

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Hi Stefan

My favorite so far ist this product:

http://www.tnpbroadcast....s-hd-pro-hdmi-100m-p5972

With approx. 100m and 1500 USD a good price!


But you are right I will test the nyrius with approx. 50m by open space (clear line of sight):

http://nyrius.com/produc...ptops_NPCS550.eng-4.html

Feedbacks from :
http://www.bhphotovideo....ies_pro_wireless_hd.html

confirm my decision :-).

I tell you the results asap...

Regards

Patrick



tgdzapa1  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, August 19, 2014 1:21:36 AM(UTC)
tgdzapa1

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/21/2014(UTC)
Posts: 81
Location: sportwebtv.be

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Test done and...? Not really a solution.

I tested:

http://nyrius.com/produc...tops_NPCS550.eng-4.html

Camera:
http://www.sony.de/pro/p...hd/hxr-mc2000e/overview/

with 1080 transmitted.

Distance: max 15m, clear line of sight! not longer:-(

Quality: moved pictures are not good see this example:



Streamed in 720 - too much pixel faults.

Finally: I can use this product for example for a output monitor to the commentators. I don't recommend
this product for a camera because the distance and quality are not enough. In the other hand the price
for the performence is ok.

Regards
Patrick

h2video.nl  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, August 19, 2014 5:32:22 AM(UTC)
h2video.nl

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/7/2012(UTC)
Posts: 503
Man
Location: The Netherlands

Thanks: 9 times
Was thanked: 45 time(s) in 39 post(s)
hi Patrick,
nice garden...;-)

see what you mean. i use the nyrius in a fixed setup. keeping a clear and steady line of sight. i think because you walk around maybe you obstruct the signal somehow.

how did you put the sender and receiver... can you show us your setup.

in fixed setup and indoors ( outside in the open, i guess signal strength is weaker ) all is well if you keep a close watch on the limitations.

as mentioned before, there must be easy tricks to boost signal strength or boosting reception ... youtube has a number of good examples of the nyrius and others...
stefan
richardgatarski  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:58:52 AM(UTC)
richardgatarski

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/18/2014(UTC)
Posts: 1,811
Location: Stockholm

Thanks: 137 times
Was thanked: 292 time(s) in 246 post(s)
Patrick,
The video you link to is from the YouTube live stream recording. The artifacts in it are most certainly from h.264 compression (chosen quality/bitrate)and internet transmission from your streaming device (vMix PC?) to YouTube. I doubt it would have looked better if you connected the camera to your PC via a cable instead.

Record a high quality MPEG-2 with vMix and upload that. Or just look at the Preview in vMix (click the Preview icon in the Input monitor, left of cog wheel).
DC Mike  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:23:41 PM(UTC)
DC Mike

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/19/2014(UTC)
Posts: 28

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Have you tried the Teradek Bolt? The HDMI low-end version is around $1,500. I've used them for sports production with good results.
tgdzapa1  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:17:52 AM(UTC)
tgdzapa1

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/21/2014(UTC)
Posts: 81
Location: sportwebtv.be

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Hi Mike

Thanks for your information. 300 feet , approx. 90 m sounds good. Teradek is a good brand and I expect good quality.
And the end of the day ... for a live streaming wireless camera with 90m we have to pay approx. 1500 USD . All products
under this price are not suitable for sports production.

Best regards

Patrick
tgdzapa1  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:26:19 AM(UTC)
tgdzapa1

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/21/2014(UTC)
Posts: 81
Location: sportwebtv.be

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
richardgatarski wrote:
Patrick,
The video you link to is from the YouTube live stream recording. The artifacts in it are most certainly from h.264 compression (chosen quality/bitrate)and internet transmission from your streaming device (vMix PC?) to YouTube. I doubt it would have looked better if you connected the camera to your PC via a cable instead.

Record a high quality MPEG-2 with vMix and upload that. Or just look at the Preview in vMix (click the Preview icon in the Input monitor, left of cog wheel).





Hi Richard

Do you know what I forgot to check wich bitrate I chosed :-( . This could be a reason for the artifacts.

I see you have experience in youtube live stream. The process for a live stream over youtube understand I with this steps:

- Camera 1080 -> Vmix
- Vmix with 720 Bitrate 1800 -> upload to youtube

Do you mean that the live program on youtube is better than the saved program after the live session?

Regards

Patrick
tgdzapa1  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:29:36 AM(UTC)
tgdzapa1

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/21/2014(UTC)
Posts: 81
Location: sportwebtv.be

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
h2video.nl wrote:
hi Patrick,
nice garden...;-)

see what you mean. i use the nyrius in a fixed setup. keeping a clear and steady line of sight. i think because you walk around maybe you obstruct the signal somehow.

how did you put the sender and receiver... can you show us your setup.

in fixed setup and indoors ( outside in the open, i guess signal strength is weaker ) all is well if you keep a close watch on the limitations.

as mentioned before, there must be easy tricks to boost signal strength or boosting reception ... youtube has a number of good examples of the nyrius and others...
stefan



Hi Stefan

Thanks for Information and tricks.

I will make a second test with a higher bitrate and a boost signal item. See you !
Which distance do you reach ?


Regards
Patrick
richardgatarski  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:03:19 AM(UTC)
richardgatarski

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/18/2014(UTC)
Posts: 1,811
Location: Stockholm

Thanks: 137 times
Was thanked: 292 time(s) in 246 post(s)
tgdzapa1 wrote:
Do you mean that the live program on youtube is better than the saved program after the live session?

No, I mean that the local vMix recording is typically better than what you stream. For 720p the general recommendation is 2.5 Mbps when streaming (using h.264 mp4). Compare that with that a reasonable quality for local mp4 recording is 8 Mbps (and much more is actually better, but generates large files).

YouTube saves the recording of the stream you send to them. So the quality of their recording depends on what streaming quality you set, and how good your internet uplink is (eg for a 2.5 Mbps stream you should have at least 5 Mbps upstream internet dedicated to you - not shared with others).

I have three Nyrius Pros (and a few other similar, but bulkier, brands) and is very happy with them. The Teradek Bolt, and Radian HD Wireless transmitter are perhaps somewhat better more reliable, but does not motivate the price difference for me.

Connect your Nyrius Pro into an Input in vMix, and on that input click the Preview icon (left of the cog wheel), which will give you an almost full view of the Input on the Screen. Then walk around with your camera and see how it looks like on the screen, and how far you can move. That will give you a pretty good impression of how the wireless works. Then change the connection to an HDMI cable and compare. This way you eliminates the recording/streaming quality issues.

The quality of the recording and the stream then depends on what qualities you set. Martin usually recommends MPEG-2 TS 50 Mbps for full HD recordings, which creates a huge file if the recording is long. (Hence we stay with 8 Mbps mp4). One alternative, still huge files, is to record externally to an Atomos Ninja or similar (eq Blackmagic's Hyperdeck).

All this are simplifications of the actually complex world of video formats, resolutions, and frame rates. And of course hardware things in the camera and video input/output cards matter too.


Innomedia  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2014 4:56:38 AM(UTC)
Innomedia

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/8/2013(UTC)
Posts: 87
Man
Location: Bavaria, Germany

Thanks: 6 times
Was thanked: 19 time(s) in 10 post(s)
tgdzapa1 wrote:
Hi Mike

Thanks for your information. 300 feet , approx. 90 m sounds good. Teradek is a good brand and I expect good quality.
And the end of the day ... for a live streaming wireless camera with 90m we have to pay approx. 1500 USD . All products
under this price are not suitable for sports production.

Best regards

Patrick



Hi

Wireless transmission is a really nice feature and is highly appreciated for many events. But always consider important facts like
a) kind of venue (indoor/outdoor)
b) number of audience
c) resolution of your production
d) distance of transmission
e) mobility of the camera
f) expectations in quality level

We tried different Teradek products in professional sports arenas (indoor). In an empty arena we had perfect results up to 1080p at a range of more than 60m (clear line of sight). When the arena was crowded with more than 6500 people we did not have the slightest chance to transmit anything. After the event (empty arena) we had perfect transmission again. So keep that in mind for your personal plannings.

If you just want to save cable it is not worth thinking about it. A good cable is always the best solution. But if you have a real demand because you want to walk around the venue with your camera or if you have places you can not reach by cable without extraordinary effort then a wireless transmission will make sense. Outdoor the Teradek products work fine as described in other posts.

Regards
Karsten
tgdzapa1  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2014 5:39:07 AM(UTC)
tgdzapa1

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/21/2014(UTC)
Posts: 81
Location: sportwebtv.be

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Innomedia wrote:
tgdzapa1 wrote:
Hi Mike

Thanks for your information. 300 feet , approx. 90 m sounds good. Teradek is a good brand and I expect good quality.
And the end of the day ... for a live streaming wireless camera with 90m we have to pay approx. 1500 USD . All products
under this price are not suitable for sports production.

Best regards

Patrick



Hi

Wireless transmission is a really nice feature and is highly appreciated for many events. But always consider important facts like
a) kind of venue (indoor/outdoor)
b) number of audience
c) resolution of your production
d) distance of transmission
e) mobility of the camera
f) expectations in quality level

We tried different Teradek products in professional sports arenas (indoor). In an empty arena we had perfect results up to 1080p at a range of more than 60m (clear line of sight). When the arena was crowded with more than 6500 people we did not have the slightest chance to transmit anything. After the event (empty arena) we had perfect transmission again. So keep that in mind for your personal plannings.

If you just want to save cable it is not worth thinking about it. A good cable is always the best solution. But if you have a real demand because you want to walk around the venue with your camera or if you have places you can not reach by cable without extraordinary effort then a wireless transmission will make sense. Outdoor the Teradek products work fine as described in other posts.

Regards
Karsten




Hallo Karsten

Thanks for posting.

Which bitrate and pixelrate do you prefer for your live stream?

Patrick
tgdzapa1  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, August 20, 2014 7:40:39 AM(UTC)
tgdzapa1

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/21/2014(UTC)
Posts: 81
Location: sportwebtv.be

Thanks: 15 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
h2video.nl wrote:
hi Patrick,
nice garden...;-)

see what you mean. i use the nyrius in a fixed setup. keeping a clear and steady line of sight. i think because you walk around maybe you obstruct the signal somehow.

how did you put the sender and receiver... can you show us your setup.

in fixed setup and indoors ( outside in the open, i guess signal strength is weaker ) all is well if you keep a close watch on the limitations.

as mentioned before, there must be easy tricks to boost signal strength or boosting reception ... youtube has a number of good examples of the nyrius and others...
stefan




Hi

About boosters and tricks... :-) . According to this what for a product or solution to boost do you recommend?

Like this? :

or


on the receiver?

Regards
Patrick
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.