logo

Live Production Software Forums


Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
kmedia  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 21, 2022 1:39:28 AM(UTC)
kmedia

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/18/2019(UTC)
Posts: 10
United States

Thanks: 1 times
In the Fun Time Live Show from IBC, they mentioned a "stream delay" feature for the upcoming vMix 26 Alpha. I'd like to request an expansion of this feature into a broadcast delay (AKA deferred live) with a "dump button" that can skip ahead a few seconds in the delayed stream.

This is similar to how TV networks use a brief delay on their live feeds, which enables them to instantly cut out anything slanderous or illegal before it reaches the airwaves.

I've read of a few workarounds to achieve a similar effect but they usually involve complicated setups with multiple PCs connected together. If vMix 26 can manage a stream delay, it shouldn't be too complex to add a quick "jump ahead 3 seconds in the delay" command and a shortcut trigger for surfaces like the Streamdeck.
carlofornasari  
#2 Posted : Saturday, October 15, 2022 11:55:43 AM(UTC)
carlofornasari

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/5/2019(UTC)
Posts: 28
Australia
Location: Sydney

Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 4 post(s)
Originally Posted by: kmedia Go to Quoted Post
In the Fun Time Live Show from IBC, they mentioned a "stream delay" feature for the upcoming vMix 26 Alpha. I'd like to request an expansion of this feature into a broadcast delay (AKA deferred live) with a "dump button" that can skip ahead a few seconds in the delayed stream.

This is similar to how TV networks use a brief delay on their live feeds, which enables them to instantly cut out anything slanderous or illegal before it reaches the airwaves.

I've read of a few workarounds to achieve a similar effect, but they usually involve complicated setups with multiple PCs connected together. If vMix 26 can manage a stream delay, it shouldn't be too complex to add a quick "jump ahead 3 seconds in the delay" command and a shortcut trigger for surfaces like the Streamdeck.


vMix can achieve this function (partially) using vmix replay. It would involve some scripting. The one thing that it couldn't do is the time stretching to build up the three or more seconds. You would need to start with the delay in place. vMix replay allows timeshifting, and there is a button to "jump to now."

It's not a perfect solution, but it's probably the cheapest solution by far. Check out the price of EVS, and I will see you back here shortly.
WaltG12  
#3 Posted : Saturday, November 5, 2022 7:00:56 AM(UTC)
WaltG12

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/4/2021(UTC)
Posts: 185
United States

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 24 time(s) in 24 post(s)
Originally Posted by: kmedia Go to Quoted Post
In the Fun Time Live Show from IBC, they mentioned a "stream delay" feature for the upcoming vMix 26 Alpha. I'd like to request an expansion of this feature into a broadcast delay (AKA deferred live) with a "dump button" that can skip ahead a few seconds in the delayed stream.


So here's the thing.

A traditional dump button works by dropping the cache while maintaining the delay. It literally dumps it (hence the name).

Since it dumps the cache while maintaining the delay (otherwise you can only use it once), on the most common, budget systems it results in dead air.

Some will give you a placeholder, but those are a lot more complicated.

Dead air on an analog broadcast (which is generally where you find these systems in the US, because the FCC regulations that necessitate them don't apply to non-OTA distributors) is possible because the transmitter is transmitting whether it's getting a signal or not. The signal can stop and restart with absolutely no ill effects.

That's not possible while streaming. If the server stops receiving a signal, things break. Something has to be sent to maintain the stream, which pushes this out of "standard dump button" territory and into "really fancy and really complicated" territory.

Only dropping some of the cache, like you seem to be suggesting, still strikes me as requiring a massive programming effort on top of implementing the standard, fixed delay, and, honestly, I'm not sure it's really worth the effort.

I see a lot of people talking about wanting a dump button, but almost none of them ever seem to have had to use a dump button.

Speaking as someone who (unfortunately) has had to use a dump button or risk FCC fines, it's a lot harder than a lot of people think it is.

You don't want the drop to be excruciating for the viewer, especially if the cause is a fleeting word or gesture. Let's say it jumps ahead 10 seconds--and even that's cutting it, because 10 seconds is a lot of time for context to where you're at now.

But it's manageable, so we'll go with 10 seconds.

Since it skips ahead 10 seconds, that means that you'd have 10 seconds from the word or gesture or whatever you want to cut to hit the button before you lose that chance.

For as long as 10 seconds is to lose, it's an extremely short amount of time to process whatever was said or done, stop what you're doing, and hit the button.

Unless you have someone with the sole responsibility of focusing on that content and hitting that button if things go south, you're probably not going to find the feature as useful as you think you will.

I genuinely believe that very few people who request this feature will actually end up using it once they find out how difficult it actually is in practice.
kmedia  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 8, 2022 2:13:16 AM(UTC)
kmedia

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/18/2019(UTC)
Posts: 10
United States

Thanks: 1 times
Originally Posted by: WaltG12 Go to Quoted Post
I genuinely believe that very few people who request this feature will actually end up using it once they find out how difficult it actually is in practice.


Honestly I agree with you, it's not vitally important for most streaming scenarios because there's no real risk of FCC fines. But for a show like ours, with live callers asking questions on-air, a fast dump button would be an anxiety-reducing layer of protection against pranksters who jump on air to shout slurs or someone's home telephone number – stuff that won't get us fined but would be a headache to handle.

Hardware broadcast delay systems are expensive. My quick research found they can be around $3k for audio alone or $10k+ for video. We don't stream 24/7 like a radio station, so we don't need to quietly squeeze in seconds to fill a buffer while simultaneously continuing to broadcast (which appears to be the most complicated aspect of hardware systems).

The whole concept seems easily solvable in vMix with an option to add a 12 second delay between the output and the actual stream, which can be skipped in 3-second increments at the press of a button and could trigger its own chain of actions, like immediately muting the caller audio or playing a sound effect.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.