logo

Live Production Software Forums


Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages12>
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
richardgatarski  
#1 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2016 1:13:41 PM(UTC)
richardgatarski

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/18/2014(UTC)
Posts: 1,811
Location: Stockholm

Thanks: 137 times
Was thanked: 292 time(s) in 246 post(s)
I am trying to get a new PC up and running. Win 10, Asus X99 Deluxe II, i7-5930K, nVidia Strix GTX980 TI OC.

My (main) problem is that I get occasional spikes in render time. Lies around 0-1 ms, then (several times every minute) it goes up to 5, 15, even 40+ ms, and so on. And I sometimes get some stuttering in Preview and Output.

Yes, all drivers are up to date and I start from default settings with a new preset (1920x1080 50p). The spikes occur for example when I have a single Camera or just a Video input playing.

I think I've tried everything I can think of, except to use a different graphics card (will do that next week).

Unless - maybe one of you guys have an idea, or perhaps have noticed similar behavior and found a solution.

In any case, have a great weekend (I will - summer has hit Sweden).
Maximus  
#2 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2016 7:43:07 PM(UTC)
Maximus

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/25/2012(UTC)
Posts: 174
Location: Barbados

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 24 time(s) in 24 post(s)
Hi, I am using a similar new set up (Asus X99 Deluxe with i7 5930) and I too noticed the spikes in render time. It caused stuttering on the output. I got it under control by moving my Decklink Quad Capture Card from PCIe 2 to PCIe 3 slot. I am still performing test, but that definitely helped in my case. If you have additional cards besides the graphic card installed, try removing or re-arranging them.

Let me know how it goes.

Maxi
madness  
#3 Posted : Sunday, June 5, 2016 10:39:52 AM(UTC)
madness

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/16/2013(UTC)
Posts: 406
Man
Location: Iowa

Thanks: 281 times
Was thanked: 32 time(s) in 29 post(s)
Sounds like an interrupt conflict be the sounds of Maximus's post. I agree, shuffle the cards around in the available slots to see if it reduces this conflict.

http://www.helpwithpcs.c.../change-irq-settings.htm
NiBTour  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, June 7, 2016 11:31:23 PM(UTC)
NiBTour

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/28/2016(UTC)
Posts: 155
Man
United States
Location: SACRAMENTO

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 18 time(s) in 17 post(s)
madness wrote:
Sounds like an interrupt conflict be the sounds of Maximus's post. I agree, shuffle the cards around in the available slots to see if it reduces this conflict.

http://www.helpwithpcs.c.../change-irq-settings.htm



I almost built my mobile production kit the same but went with the higher LGA1151 6700K proc and the GTX 970. Sure its got less pcie lanes then the x99 but I haven't had any issues with spikes and or slots. I am rebuilding another one though as a micro ATX since I have ran into issues with flying with my larger 4U rack in a gator box so i'm curious how your setup does with 8+ inputs. I would love to see some benchmark test from yours as well with the lower speed CPU but more cores and of course with more lanes.

funny I have been building high end servers most of my life for virtualization and databases but the second I jumped over to this world it has shown I have a huge learning curve due to GPU and single proc requirements. kind of fun though. haha

-King
richardgatarski  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, June 8, 2016 4:03:49 PM(UTC)
richardgatarski

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/18/2014(UTC)
Posts: 1,811
Location: Stockholm

Thanks: 137 times
Was thanked: 292 time(s) in 246 post(s)
Thanks for all comments and suggestions. I've tried moving around the cards, including the Nvidia, between slots. But that seems not to be the main problem.

After spending *many* hours on this problem I tried installing Asus GPU Tweak II. In it I noticed that the GPU clock spiked. Initially it starts at around 230, but on and off spiked up into the 800-1000 range. So, I installed GPU Tweak on another workhorse with a GTX970. That clock spinned steadily at 899. Maybe I was onto someting...

Back to the X99 machine and I selected "Always 3D clock" in GPU Tweak. Not sure what it does, except getting the clock to spin at a steady 1300 something. Now the render times looked normal. A little later, while experimenting with different things, I found that if I had three monitors attached to the X99/GTX980 (earlier I had only two) the clock spinned at 900 hundred something (without selecting "Always 3D clock"). The PC with the 970 also has three monitors attached, so that's probably why it's GPU clocked is always on 899.

As I added a Yuan SC542N4-SDI capture card (started with one Yuan SC542N4-HDMI), and attached a few cameras I noticed that 900 was not sufficient. But by using Always 3D clock it seems OK render time wise.

For the moment I am pretty conviced that there is an issue around how the GPU clock is controlled. For sure, I can setup my PC to always start GPU Tweak with Always 3D clock. But it would of course be nice to know why it sometimes seems to spin too low for vMix.

Still get a slight stuttering when Fullscreen is on, but not as bad as before (render time still sub 10 ms, and total CPU sub 30%). And I have yet to test with more capture cards, and their PCIe slot allocation. But that's another story...

thanks 1 user thanked richardgatarski for this useful post.
Squier on 6/11/2016(UTC)
admin  
#6 Posted : Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:36:10 PM(UTC)
admin

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administrators
Joined: 1/13/2010(UTC)
Posts: 5,137
Man
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Was thanked: 4135 time(s) in 1487 post(s)
From the Nvidia control panel there is a setting under Manage 3d settings called Power Management Mode.
You can change this to Prefer maximum performance to avoid power saving features kicking in on the card.

That said, render time spikes should not happen regardless, usually it indicates a compatibility issue with the PCI express cards installed.
Have you tried testing without the Yuan card installed?

X99 tends to work a bit differently to more mainstream motherboards and there may be some compatibility quirks with some capture cards.
Maybe Yuan can confirm if the card is supported by X99.
richardgatarski  
#7 Posted : Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:28:31 PM(UTC)
richardgatarski

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/18/2014(UTC)
Posts: 1,811
Location: Stockholm

Thanks: 137 times
Was thanked: 292 time(s) in 246 post(s)
Thanks Martin!
Changing to Maximum performance made no difference.

Instead I threw in a Magewell XI400DE-HDMI which seems to be working just fine in my limited test.
I think the Yuan SC542N4 should be X99 compatible, I'll check with them - but they behave strangely in this PC.

Also tried with an Intensity Pro, that one too have spikes on render times...

(off to The Big Apple for a week, so it while take some time before I can test further).
h2video.nl  
#8 Posted : Sunday, June 26, 2016 7:17:32 PM(UTC)
h2video.nl

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/7/2012(UTC)
Posts: 503
Man
Location: The Netherlands

Thanks: 9 times
Was thanked: 45 time(s) in 39 post(s)
hi richard,

if you are using yuan cards be aware of the following:

i v had some discussions with them regarding observed spikes in render time and dropped frames. i found out the problem was that i had installed the new drivers but this did not remove the old driver. I had to manually remove the old one. problem solved.

i recently bought a number of new cards 2 sdi low frame, a new hardware type layout. they perform very well, not a dropped frame over long recording times, cooler, only pcie *1

i use the yuan in combo with bm mini rec or monitor. the bm cards are picky: i have two discrete lanes but can not swap, it only works in a specific config woth the yuan.

on top of that windows 10 is updating all the time. i really hate that, but seems to be unavoidable. this also might cause trouble, i alwas have the card drivers instal files on the system so i can quickly uninstall and reinstall after an update.

if i want to absolutely safe i uninstall the cards. remove everything install the driver and the put the card in place. card by card. to avoid an conflict.

but then i am still working on my trusted amd a10 system with integrated gpu and only 3 inputs and a desktop capture... nothing fancy.

greetings stefan

ps i also bought a yuan intranet server box: small, flexible and very reliable and cost effective. now i can hook this up to my local wifi and i can make a local broadcast so my cameramen can watch what i am doing or my clients can watch what i record in another room. just over wifi or the local net. a nice addition to my toolbox. nice thing to have from yuan.
thanks 1 user thanked h2video.nl for this useful post.
Squier on 6/27/2016(UTC)
Squier  
#9 Posted : Monday, June 27, 2016 6:05:03 AM(UTC)
Squier

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: UK

Thanks: 32 times
Hi Stefan, have you got a link to the 'yuan intranet server box' you mentioned in your last post?
Thanks
S
richardgatarski  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 3:12:28 PM(UTC)
richardgatarski

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/18/2014(UTC)
Posts: 1,811
Location: Stockholm

Thanks: 137 times
Was thanked: 292 time(s) in 246 post(s)
Stefan, thanks!
Yuan are currently looking into my issues. Strange they have not mentioned that you had similar problems.

When you say "remove", do you mean uninstalling using Windows control panel "Program and Features", or some other more hard core procedure?

/richard
(also interested in the server)
h2video.nl  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 3:53:07 PM(UTC)
h2video.nl

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/7/2012(UTC)
Posts: 503
Man
Location: The Netherlands

Thanks: 9 times
Was thanked: 45 time(s) in 39 post(s)
hi richard: check under the installed programs for the yuan software. i first uninstalled the old drive and installed the new and later found both yuan programs in the list of software. the i removed - un installed - the old software and this solved my issue.

reported this to yuan !

i also had an issue with the 4 input hdmi card which lost compatibility with my motherbord. but this seems to be fixed now.

I will try to include the manual and info leaflet of the stream box here an attachment. there is no info on the website of this nice little gem. saw it at ibc and then ordered one for testing and I really love this little thing. sdi hdmi dvi component input, only 2 seconds delay on my ipad over wifi. had to contact them again for the locator software that detects the box on the network.

but it really works and is easy to take along...

leaflet
manual

stefan
h2video.nl attached the following image(s):
image.png (195kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
h2video.nl  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 4:05:39 PM(UTC)
h2video.nl

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/7/2012(UTC)
Posts: 503
Man
Location: The Netherlands

Thanks: 9 times
Was thanked: 45 time(s) in 39 post(s)
can not attach the yuan pfd manual, but here two pages from the manual: you pick up the stream with vlc player or vlc player app for ipad or iphone..

easy.
stefan
h2video.nl attached the following image(s):
image.png (151kb) downloaded 1 time(s).
image.png (118kb) downloaded 1 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
richardgatarski  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, June 29, 2016 12:32:16 PM(UTC)
richardgatarski

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/18/2014(UTC)
Posts: 1,811
Location: Stockholm

Thanks: 137 times
Was thanked: 292 time(s) in 246 post(s)
So I tried removing all drivers and video input cards. Then installing one SC542N4 HDMI again (in a different slot), installing its driver, but the render time spikes remain...
h2video.nl  
#14 Posted : Thursday, June 30, 2016 1:08:36 AM(UTC)
h2video.nl

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/7/2012(UTC)
Posts: 503
Man
Location: The Netherlands

Thanks: 9 times
Was thanked: 45 time(s) in 39 post(s)
hi Richard,

did you find the old driver program in the program list?

what remains could be a compatibility issue with the card and that motherboard. there have been mentions of this problem on the forum, which led me to remove this card.

you could try installing the old drivers? and you don't have issues with this card removed?

I have been looking into this isue myself aswel, and also the compatibility issues with bm card combinations. not all slots are single slots but bm needs all resources. anyway: keep us informed if you find the cause.

Yuan mailed me the link to the streambox info on their website: http://www.yuan.com.tw/e...server_mod.htm#hdencoder

yuan sc601 link
Ittaidv  
#15 Posted : Monday, July 18, 2016 1:52:37 PM(UTC)
Ittaidv

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/19/2013(UTC)
Posts: 600
Man
Belgium
Location: Belgium

Thanks: 75 times
Was thanked: 91 time(s) in 75 post(s)
Sounds like your motherboard is limiting the speed of the pcie lanes.

I recently discovered a freeware program called hwinfo. It gives all info about every device on your pc, inclucing capture cards. It also tells you exactly what the maximum link speed is for every card in every slot. It's a good tool to debug issues like this one.
richardgatarski  
#16 Posted : Sunday, August 14, 2016 12:37:42 PM(UTC)
richardgatarski

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/18/2014(UTC)
Posts: 1,811
Location: Stockholm

Thanks: 137 times
Was thanked: 292 time(s) in 246 post(s)
Good news!
To begin with I have had a really nice vacation :)

Back in the studio I found that Asus had updates for the chipset, MEI, Audio, and Asmedia. Installed them, and if I remember correctly it helped a little bit - but not all the way.

Then I installed Windows' Anniversary update. Lo and behold, that seems to complete all the tricks. It now works with 1 Yuan SC542N4-HDMI and one SC542N4-SDI. But I can't get the Intensity pro to function, no matter how I shuffle the cards between the slots.

Upfter updating vMix to 17.107 I did some brief tests using seven inputs at 1080p, streaming (FFMPEG, hardware) and recording (mp4, hardware) - all att Full HD. Render times looked stable and good between 6 and 10 ms, and the total CPU never above 30% (overclocked to 4,4 Ghz). A few framedrops, but I can live with those. Might be caused by the scalers and splitters I used to fix seven sources with only two cameras.

Holding my thumbs that this system is now good to go after some further burn in tests.
Thanks for all the support and creative suggestions!
richardgatarski  
#17 Posted : Saturday, December 31, 2016 5:04:10 PM(UTC)
richardgatarski

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/18/2014(UTC)
Posts: 1,811
Location: Stockholm

Thanks: 137 times
Was thanked: 292 time(s) in 246 post(s)
Just wanted to add that my previous post was premature. Turned out it was not stable at all. This week I tried again to update all drivers, Windows, etc. Still no good. So I spent a day throwing out the X99 with CPU and replaced it with a Z170 and a 6700K. So far so good (except that Yuan drivers are unsigned drivers, working on that issue - instead of celebrating New Year ;)

Anyways, the X99 Chipset issues has gotten it's own topic, so I consider this one to be closed.
pba  
#18 Posted : Saturday, December 31, 2016 8:58:21 PM(UTC)
pba

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/14/2015(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Hungary

Thanks: 38 times
Was thanked: 24 time(s) in 20 post(s)
Have you tried with win8.1? i use another ASUS X99 based motherboard without any problem. I found many problems regarding WIN10, so I go with WIN8.1, and it is very stable for me. These are too early days for the WIN10, it's not a production ready. Okay, this is my opinion of course...
justpushplay  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2018 9:43:13 AM(UTC)
justpushplay

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/15/2018(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Finland

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
This is an old topic but an issue we had with a recent top of the notch X299 build: Odd render time spikes that seemed to occur when external output was enabled, and especially when vMix was recording the output. These spikes coincided with crackles in audio that could specifically be heard on SDI output. There were also few but nonetheless skipped frames in the recorded material.

The issue seems to have gotten fixed by changing the refresh rate of the connected screen to match the frame rate of the production (in our case 60 Hz --> 50 Hz, production frame rate 1080i50). Now, after 30 minutes of testing, I have heard no more audio crackles and there are no skipped frames in the recording either. Render times spike at 17-18 ms, but mostly staying at 1-3 ms.
thanks 1 user thanked justpushplay for this useful post.
sinc747 on 9/11/2018(UTC)
Ittaidv  
#20 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2018 10:46:05 PM(UTC)
Ittaidv

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/19/2013(UTC)
Posts: 600
Man
Belgium
Location: Belgium

Thanks: 75 times
Was thanked: 91 time(s) in 75 post(s)
I've been building several (15 or so) systems over the last years, and x99 was the worst. I've just finished 3 top notch x299 builds and also see some more spiking in render times than usual, compared to z270 or z370 builds. Even my hades nuc is more stable.

I think it's important to follow the excellent optimisation guidelines posted by Martin on the website, and also indeed to make sure all screens are in the same resolution as your vmix project. 50i or p project: set your monitors at 50 hz.

Another thing to do is to disable stuff like c and p states in your bios, and let all clocks (gpu, cpu) run at a constant speed. I've also noticed a small difference between using quad channel and dual channel memory, or it might have been my imagination.

From my experience, z270- z370 builds are still the most stable of them all, so if you don't need a shitload of inputs, just go with those.

Another thing I now do, is go to services, and disable windows updates, uninstall all unneeded windows components with bulk crap installer, clean up the entire system, test it. Once it's 100% stable, install Reboot Restore Rx, which is free, and keep the system 'frozen' at it's working state. The only catch is that you cannot save anything on the c drive anymore, but the system will stay stable forever..
thanks 2 users thanked Ittaidv for this useful post.
niemi on 11/6/2018(UTC), eboyer on 11/24/2018(UTC)
Users browsing this topic
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.