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Zetor1980  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 2:31:26 PM(UTC)
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Could You please help me ?
- I'd like to do streaming from three places in about 180m high building. We have one stage on last floor, second somewhere between (15 floor) and main stage on ground floor.
My plan is to use vMix on ground floor of course. But what above? Do I need another two computers with vMix? What is mean that "BlackMagic cards are compactible with NDI" - could I connect camera to BM card in computer on last floor (without vMix) and will be seen on vMix down? Or I need another vMix soft there. I also have Teradek Cube which is also "compactible with NDI" how to use it there?
What on 15 floor ? Another one ? Do I need there Gb powered switch ? What cables do I need? Cat.5 or 6 is needed. How long they could be?

Best regards, TadeusZ
doggy  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 2:44:26 PM(UTC)
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cat6 cables max 100m, if distance longer use cheap Gb-switches in between.

myself awaiting something like bird-dog capture , and waiting and waiting ;-) to replace multi laptops and capture cards for remote cameras around the field
IceStream  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 2:48:49 PM(UTC)
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@ Zetor1980

I guess the first question is:
Is there an existing NETWORK in the building?


Ice
DWAM  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 2:54:58 PM(UTC)
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Hi !

your first problem is signal transmission over IP. Ethernet cables CAT5/6 are limited to 100m. Unless you go for fiber... Or simply SDI cables can be 230m long...

If you stick to NDI you have options assuming you have solved the IP transport:
- 3 vMix with capture cards and NDI
- 2 computers with capture cards + Newtek NDI Connect and 1 vMix

Depending on the type of production (number of cameras at each floor) you may not need 3 switchers. If you go for SDI, you don't even need several computers...
Zetor1980  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 2:55:13 PM(UTC)
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Good question , I forgot to write this. Yes there is but I prefer to arrange my own cables in staircase. They have some contraindications due to the Security.
doggy  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 2:56:06 PM(UTC)
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good point Ice :-)
Used to have to work in the outdoor fields hence no cable :-)

hardware I think currently a laptop/pc with capture card and NDI Connect would work (remote locations)
doggy  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 3:03:45 PM(UTC)
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I think one switch and one router would suffice :

furthest camera/pc location cat6 to switch close to halfway location and connected to camera/pc
from halfway switch to router close to base location connected to router
DWAM  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 3:21:43 PM(UTC)
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Quote:

I think one switch and one router would suffice :
furthest camera/pc location cat6 to switch close to halfway location and connected to camera/pc
from halfway switch to router close to base location connected to router


Assuming his camera on the last floor and his vMix are both at less than 10 meters from the stairs... But he will also lose distance in the staircase and might need to arrange the cables so that they won't be where people walk... So in the end, he's more likely to need 2 or 3 switches...

I personally would go for SDI or (SDI/HDMI over)fiber which can be rented and finally cost less than an ethernet solution with NDI
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Zetor1980 on 1/31/2017(UTC)
doggy  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 3:46:44 PM(UTC)
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As usual there are several options based on what one has, situations , goals etc

Not assuming anything , pas du tout , but just giving a possible schematic scenarios
Renting is always possible, outsourcing is too and many of us like to keep it a bit more down to earth.
If an extra switch is needed, they are very cheap.

for what it is worth , I loose distance hanging cables in trees ;-) but hey it works with wireless remotely operating the cameras, its all about being comfortable too for hours on end lol

before NDI several remote stations , each own recording and streaming , NDI makes it possible to connect them all cheaply with a master station for whatever what wants to do with it.

its an extra option but a very nice one to embrace

Now if a BirdDog or similar comes out ....
IceStream  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 7:04:11 PM(UTC)
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@ Zetor1980

As doggy states, you have multiple options, but if you are reluctant or unable to use existing infrastructure, I'm with DWAM at the option of using SDI to connect your various "Stages" to one vMix Production machine, unless, of course, you are willing and/or able to set-up your own network (with fiber for runs over 100m) between multiple 'camera capturing' computers for the NDI option to work (perhaps a slightly more complicated solution in this scenario, but do-able).
The other factor to consider with NDI is how many NDI inputs or sources are we talking about? NDI is far more CPU intensive for vMix than an SDI or HDMI capture card so you need to factor that in as well when considering what specs your system needs to have in order to cope effectively.
It certainly sounds like an interesting project and I look forward to hearing how you move forward, I would also encourage you to communicate with Richard Gatarski on his early experiences with NDI over several Kilometers (quite the feat and very promising).


Ice
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Zetor1980 on 1/31/2017(UTC)
DWAM  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 7:49:51 PM(UTC)
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No offense Doggy. My point was not to criticize your suggestion, which I totally agree with, but rather to say that sometimes when we work in buildings, the topography of location prevents us from going with the shortest path. I often need to use 50m (or longer) cables to go to the next room which is however only 20 m away as the crow flies...

Furthermore, fiber might look like a spaceship technology, but it is nowadays very cheap and provides a wonderful service for signal transport. As an example, a pack of fiber extenders costs roughly $350 and allows a distance of 10km. It's the same price as a couple of "simple" HDMI2SDI converters... This can be rented with $50 a day, aswell as a 500m fiber cable drum...
http://www.markertek.com...sdi-over-fiber-extenders

If I had to quote this project and with my feet well grounded, I'd go fiber instead of NDI for economical aswell as technical and practical reasons.

NDI:
- 2 laptops with capture cards: roughly $1500
- 2 switches and 200m CAT6: roughly $250 minimum (with very cheap switches)

Fiber:
- 2x2 Extenders: $700 (buy) or $100/150 (rental)
- 2 fiber drums : roughly $150 (rental)

In the end obviously, SDI would be the easiest and cheapest solution but even with 230m drum, I'm not sure it'd be enough for the distance from last floor to ground.

My 2 cts
Guillaume
Zetor1980  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 8:11:51 PM(UTC)
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Thank You ALL,
Slowly I inclined to do this job in the traditional way, with SDI from 15 floor and streaming by Teradek Cube from highest.

But, what was all this clamour with this NDI for?
It appears that it is expensive and inefficient. No one uses it ?

How to understand that Teradek Cube and BM cards are compactible with NDI?

Thank You again for advices and smart opinions.
Best regards, TadeusZ
DWAM  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2017 8:34:23 PM(UTC)
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NDI is fabulous !!!!!!

I don't want you to misunderstand our discussion... Maybe it is not the ideal tech for THIS project, but NDI is the future of AV prod, no doubt...

NDI allow to transport video signals on IP networks. Thus it prevents from using a lot of cables and facilitates the use of signals between computers. Check Newtek website for more details http://www.newtek.com/ndi/

We, vMix users, are intensively using NDI in our productions for many purposes and workflows types.
As it is still a very recent technology (10 months), there are still some things which are difficult to do with NDI due to the lack of equipments. The best example (what you need) is the lack of a lightweight SDI2NDI or HDMI2NDI converter. So at the moment we need to use computers with capture card to do this. Hence the price...

BMD cards are NDI compatible as any other capture boards, simply because they allow to input camera signal into computers in order to use NDI... Same as Teradek: you can send the signal to Teradek Cube with an ethernet cable instead of a SDI/HDMI cable...

Hope this helps...
Guillaume

kane  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, February 1, 2017 12:00:12 AM(UTC)
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Zetor1980 wrote:
Thank You ALL,
Slowly I inclined to do this job in the traditional way, with SDI from 15 floor and streaming by Teradek Cube from highest.

But, what was all this clamour with this NDI for?
It appears that it is expensive and inefficient. No one uses it ?

How to understand that Teradek Cube and BM cards are compactible with NDI?

Thank You again for advices and smart opinions.
Best regards, TadeusZ


I don't know if I would say it is expensive, in many cases NDI makes things less expensive (but I'll admit that isn't in every case).

To use Teradek or BMD cards as NDI sources you can use NewTek NDI Connect (free) or Connect Pro (paid) on another system to convert the inputs of these devices.

Kane Peterson
NewTek
Len56  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:53:17 AM(UTC)
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Hi Kane,

Yes I would love to use NewTek NDI Connect but my processer wont let me, this is what I get 'NDI Connect requires a CPU with AVX instructions'.

I have an old Intel Core i7 950 @ 3.07GHz processer and it does not use AVX instructions.

So can you tell me why these NDI apps need to use a CPU with AVX instructions as vMix doesn't need this.
kane  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, February 1, 2017 1:33:55 PM(UTC)
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Len56 wrote:
Hi Kane,

Yes I would love to use NewTek NDI Connect but my processer wont let me, this is what I get 'NDI Connect requires a CPU with AVX instructions'.

I have an old Intel Core i7 950 @ 3.07GHz processer and it does not use AVX instructions.

So can you tell me why these NDI apps need to use a CPU with AVX instructions as vMix doesn't need this.


NDI libraries do not require AVX instructions (although I think they will benefit from them if they are present). Some of the NewTek applications do require AVX to get the performance desired. CPUs with AVX instructions started shipping around 6 years ago, this isn't brand new technology, but some systems can be too old to work.

Kane Peterson
NewTek
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