logo

Live Production Software Forums


Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Digitalson  
#1 Posted : Friday, January 13, 2017 9:56:01 PM(UTC)
Digitalson

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Guests
Joined: 1/17/2016(UTC)
Posts: 142
Location: Nj

Was thanked: 7 time(s) in 7 post(s)
http://vidovation.com/bo...ellular-video-uplink-180

I wonder the cost? I really need something like this for a big gig next year where I have to broadcast up to 20 live video feeds all within 3-5 miles away all going to one location for live switching for broadcast....I was going run fiber thru the town,,,ha ha !! Imagine that!!
SportsNetUSA.net  
#2 Posted : Friday, January 13, 2017 11:52:38 PM(UTC)
SportsNetUSA.net

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/7/2015(UTC)
Posts: 635
Location: California

Thanks: 122 times
Was thanked: 123 time(s) in 115 post(s)
Approximately $1500 per week to rent that unit with 8 modems. Then add shipping and you may need optional decoder/software.

I believe that unit is priced higher than Teradek Bond II, which is $3495 for the HDMI version.

With bonded it's the hardware, 4G plans for 4-8 modems, and then a server or cloud service to combine the multiple streams into a stream you can send to a CDN.

I don't use bonded 3G/4G but have done some pricing research. Bonded 3G/4G is very expensive. Perhaps someone on the forum that uses the DMMG Pro 180 or a Teradek Bond II could provide more info.
DWAM  
#3 Posted : Saturday, January 14, 2017 5:11:27 AM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,721
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
I use Aviwest solutions regularly here in France. Aviwest is a French company.

Things to consider:

- even with 8 SIM cards it is sometimes difficult to get enough bandwidth when you work in an event with many people around. It's like with your cell phone in a big stadium. When there are too many people around, it's hell!
-also it won't work well when you're too far away from cell infrastructure (antennas etc...). Like your cell phone sometimes you don't get enough "bars" to connect in the country, mountains, beach, far away from the towns or roads

Then one must also understand that "bonding" is a client/server technology, meaning if you have the encoder, you must also have at least "access" to a server. You cannot stream directly to Youtube for instance. You MUST stream to a DMNG server which can then re-stream to your final destination. But sometimes it's not so easy because the streaming is adaptive depending on bandwidth. For example you want to stream 720p to youtube but your DMNG has variable encoding preset depending on bandwidth which will reduce your stream to SD sometimes. Youtube may stop the stream if your signal doesn't match its initial configuration (720p). So it's risky.

Also DMNG units are encoders. You must feed them with an uncompressed signal through SDI or HDMI

Aviwest solutions are designed for Newsgathering for Broadcast TV. The TV owns the server, many DMNG units for reporters and OBvans and usually they use the SDI outputs to ingest the remote signals in their workflow. Natively it handles interlaced signals 50i/60i (even if they now support progressive by elimiting one frame)

So if you want to use bonded solutions (there are other companies like LiveU, Mushroomnetworks, Dejero, TVU, etc...) you got to know this.
Make sure you have a DMNG unit AND a server (you may rent them both but you still need a guy to manage the server and have high bandwidth for it)

If your gig production is for TV then the TV may already have a bonding technology platform. Contact them to know which one.
If not you may have to provide them with a server in their facilities so that they can handle the transmissions

$1500 a week is for the unit only. If you need a server rental, it's more like $2200/2500 the week (at least here in France)

But remember I wouldn't go for bonding in a festival with more than 1000 people around. A satellite uplink is more reliable as you do not share the bandwidth.
Also it's pretty easy nowadays to have a fiber installed for a few days (telcos will charge for a month anyway) for a live event.
thanks 3 users thanked DWAM for this useful post.
SportsNetUSA.net on 1/14/2017(UTC), niemi on 10/11/2017(UTC), seb666 on 10/12/2017(UTC)
DWAM  
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 14, 2017 5:25:17 AM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,721
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
I also use an home-made solution based on Speedify with multiple 4G/LTE modems.
When the conditions are good (not a lot of people and very good connection - very close to the antennas) I have very good results

You can check this production of mine I did with speedify : TEDx Bordeaux - 8 hours stream 1080p
?t=28m54s

For Aviwest I have a good example. I equipped an autonomous driving vehicle with a GoPro and a DMNG 180. I had a server connected to vMix in my studio. I receive the images from the car, put graphics and stream to YouTube
?t=2h9m56s
SportsNetUSA.net  
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 14, 2017 4:02:14 PM(UTC)
SportsNetUSA.net

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/7/2015(UTC)
Posts: 635
Location: California

Thanks: 122 times
Was thanked: 123 time(s) in 115 post(s)
@DWAM

Thank you for the additional information. The rental price is about the same here because with the shipping and server software option it's about another $1000.

I watched some of your production with Speedify. How many modems were used and were they from different providers? I tried Speedify but couldn't get it to work with two (2) AT&T 4G modems.
DWAM  
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 14, 2017 4:35:57 PM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,721
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
I had 3 Huawei 4G/LTE modems and 2 TELCOS. That day for TEDx I had an average of 50 Mbits for upload (with peaks above 100 Mbits). The antenna was across the street at less than 100m. I streamed at 8 Mbits flawlessly.
thanks 1 user thanked DWAM for this useful post.
mjgraves on 1/14/2017(UTC)
Digitalson  
#7 Posted : Sunday, January 15, 2017 1:04:23 AM(UTC)
Digitalson

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Guests
Joined: 1/17/2016(UTC)
Posts: 142
Location: Nj

Was thanked: 7 time(s) in 7 post(s)
What about a wifi configuration? I have seen the new fast bandwidth long range modems ...some up to 5 miles,,,,,any input is much appreciated
DWAM  
#8 Posted : Sunday, January 15, 2017 5:54:35 AM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,721
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
Don't know what you're talking about. Be more specific. Which WiFi?

If you're talking about Wimax, individuals can't use it here in Europe, so...

In certain circumstances (clear view, no obstacles...), it's possible to build a wireless bridge between your production location and the closest point with high bandwidth availability. When perfectly set, it gives good performance for short ranges like 1 or 2 km. Never tried for more.
niemi  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, October 11, 2017 12:50:46 PM(UTC)
niemi

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/16/2017(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: Denmark

Thanks: 27 times
Was thanked: 18 time(s) in 15 post(s)
DWAM wrote:
I use Aviwest solutions regularly here in France. Aviwest is a French company.

Things to consider:

- even with 8 SIM cards it is sometimes difficult to get enough bandwidth when you work in an event with many people around. It's like with your cell phone in a big stadium. When there are too many people around, it's hell!
-also it won't work well when you're too far away from cell infrastructure (antennas etc...). Like your cell phone sometimes you don't get enough "bars" to connect in the country, mountains, beach, far away from the towns or roads

Then one must also understand that "bonding" is a client/server technology, meaning if you have the encoder, you must also have at least "access" to a server. You cannot stream directly to Youtube for instance. You MUST stream to a DMNG server which can then re-stream to your final destination. But sometimes it's not so easy because the streaming is adaptive depending on bandwidth. For example you want to stream 720p to youtube but your DMNG has variable encoding preset depending on bandwidth which will reduce your stream to SD sometimes. Youtube may stop the stream if your signal doesn't match its initial configuration (720p). So it's risky.

Also DMNG units are encoders. You must feed them with an uncompressed signal through SDI or HDMI

Aviwest solutions are designed for Newsgathering for Broadcast TV. The TV owns the server, many DMNG units for reporters and OBvans and usually they use the SDI outputs to ingest the remote signals in their workflow. Natively it handles interlaced signals 50i/60i (even if they now support progressive by elimiting one frame)

So if you want to use bonded solutions (there are other companies like LiveU, Mushroomnetworks, Dejero, TVU, etc...) you got to know this.
Make sure you have a DMNG unit AND a server (you may rent them both but you still need a guy to manage the server and have high bandwidth for it)

If your gig production is for TV then the TV may already have a bonding technology platform. Contact them to know which one.
If not you may have to provide them with a server in their facilities so that they can handle the transmissions

$1500 a week is for the unit only. If you need a server rental, it's more like $2200/2500 the week (at least here in France)

But remember I wouldn't go for bonding in a festival with more than 1000 people around. A satellite uplink is more reliable as you do not share the bandwidth.
Also it's pretty easy nowadays to have a fiber installed for a few days (telcos will charge for a month anyway) for a live event.


DWAM, when the stream has been de-bonded by the DMNG server, is it possible to take the stream into vMix as an input? The DMNG server and vMix are setup at two different locations. They are relatively close (300 km from each other) and both on strong networks.
DWAM  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, October 11, 2017 1:13:05 PM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,721
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 243 times
Was thanked: 794 time(s) in 589 post(s)
Hi Niemi

yes for sure. However maybe it's better to have the DMNG server where you are with vMix if you have enough bandwidth. It's just a PC in rack format. If you have the control on the gateway, have a Public IP address and can setup port forwarding, it will work anywhere.

A DMNG server is basically a server with a BMD Decklink Duo card with 2 SDI outputs.
It receives streams from cellular modems via IP, de-bonds and provides the signal to an output.
Then it's like any SDI source, you can do whatever you want:
- feed a vMix instance (and use vMix Call)
- feed any software or hardware encoder
- feed NDI Connect and use NDI Cloud or Medialooks
- etc...

Yo?
Guillaume
jvphobic  
#11 Posted : Thursday, October 12, 2017 11:08:38 AM(UTC)
jvphobic

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/23/2016(UTC)
Posts: 106
Location: Milwaukee

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 11 time(s) in 10 post(s)
Oh, I have a lot of experience with cell bonding. I have switched (and am the main tech guy) over 40 broadcasts using Teradek Bond 2s. They are sporting events that take place in large parks where there is no way I can run economically run cabling. We are a very small operation.

Cell bonding is a mixed bag. We have come to the determination that in testing we like to see at least 3mb up for a particular provider. We then have at least 3 modems for that provider and push our a 4.5 meg stream. If the signal strength is a lot better, we will sometimes bump our stream up to 6 or 8. We have noticed at larger events that if there are a bunch of people, we will run into the occasional bandwidth issue. But overall we are very happy with the results over the past few years.

PS. I have 2 Teradek Bond 2s for sale pretty cheap if anyone is interested, BARELY used. Just PM me.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.