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developing story: akitio thunderbolt 3 pcie input box
h2video.nl
#1 Posted : Wednesday, 23 November 2016 2:27:25 PM
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i am eagerly awaiting my brand new thunder3 pcie box to use with my brand new msi envidia 1060 laptop with thunderbolt3 input.

this akitio box can hold a pcie input card and i will test several. aiming for a bm 2 duo card with 4 seperate input outputs.

in theory this set would be about 700 euros for a 4 input sdi sollution in a compact setup.

anybody tried this already?

greetings
stefan
richardgatarski
#2 Posted : Friday, 9 December 2016 6:13:41 PM
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Stefan,
We have one Akitio with a Magewell 4xHDMI (old one), works just fine over TB3 :)
h2video.nl
#3 Posted : Friday, 9 December 2016 7:35:59 PM
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thought I would be one step ahead of you this time Richard ;-)

Any experience with using bm cards. i am planning to put in a bm duo 2 input output card. should work but not sure.

and did you solve the thunderbolt 3 connector issue? this is a main concern because i think the connector is the weakest link... might render this direction unusefull in live recordings.

stefan
richardgatarski
#4 Posted : Friday, 9 December 2016 11:01:32 PM
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I am hesitant to use BM, go the impression that their drivers are kind of messy...

Nothing new regarding my fear of the issues with Thunderbolt connectors. I hoped that other vMix users with Thunderbolt would fiddle with theirs, but so far no one has reported anything...

Luckily we have had no problems when live (and we are extra catious), only when testing and prepping.
TV97
#5 Posted : Friday, 9 December 2016 11:03:34 PM
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Akitio Thunderlbolt 3 + Blackmagic DUO 2 work very well on our NUC Canyon Skull.

Very Happy.
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RichShumaker on 1/04/2017
Kelvin
#6 Posted : Friday, 9 December 2016 11:03:42 PM
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I'm using a similar setup with the Sonnet Echo expansion box and a Magewell 4xSDI card. I'm using the Apple TB3 to TB2 adapter and it works fine. Based on some posts here, I was a little concerned about the robustness of the connection, but I don't believe it will be a concern.
h2video.nl
#7 Posted : Friday, 23 December 2016 7:11:45 AM
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TV97 wrote:
Akitio Thunderlbolt 3 + Blackmagic DUO 2 work very well on our NUC Canyon Skull.

Very Happy.


hi TV79,

do you see all 4 inputs on the duo? I just received the akitio unit, installed it with the duo, but I can only see 3 units. I can see them all in the bm programme but nr 4 is greyed out. in vmix i can only use 3 inputs... the 4th i can not use...

any ideas? what bm driver version do you use?

i can daisy chain the unit with a bm thunderbolt 2 unit so i have an extra input. maybe even use the display output as an external output. thats six...

stefan
NiBTour
#8 Posted : Saturday, 24 December 2016 12:17:54 AM
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h2video.nl wrote:
TV97 wrote:
Akitio Thunderlbolt 3 + Blackmagic DUO 2 work very well on our NUC Canyon Skull.

Very Happy.


hi TV79,

do you see all 4 inputs on the duo? I just received the akitio unit, installed it with the duo, but I can only see 3 units. I can see them all in the bm programme but nr 4 is greyed out. in vmix i can only use 3 inputs... the 4th i can not use...

any ideas? what bm driver version do you use?

i can daisy chain the unit with a bm thunderbolt 2 unit so i have an extra input. maybe even use the display output as an external output. thats six...

stefan



I as well have been using this exact same setup with the black magic duo and akitio since it first came out and it does work perfectly. i'm also using it with a skull NUC with 4 cameras and all is perfectly fine. As for your issue i bet its because you need to assign ports as single sdi ports in BM. out of the box they are set as 1 & 3 and 2 & 4. Just be sure you set them to only be SDI 1, SDI 2 etc and you'll see them all.
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RichShumaker on 1/04/2017
TV97
#9 Posted : Saturday, 24 December 2016 4:31:54 AM
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Yes I confirm that 4 inputs of Blackmagic Duo2 and driver 10.8.4 work simultaneously in VMIX 18
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RichShumaker on 1/04/2017
h2video.nl
#10 Posted : Sunday, 25 December 2016 12:00:09 AM
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tried it again and i first assigned all sdi inputs. can not select like with the 8 input card, but i have to activate the inputs in bm manager.

in the end i managed to get 3 inputs working, one output active and i managed to daisychain one extra input through thunder3 to 2 conversion and using a bm thunderbolt 2 mini capture. so 4 inputs and one output.

next thing on the list is to get 5 inputs active and try to hook on the displayport to hdmi output for monitoring (output) and or external streaming or wifi streaming.

anyway, getting there and very happy because my set is getting bigger in capabilities and smaller in size... 3 inputs and one output is enough for me for most recordings.

have a good holliday season everybody...
stefan
2 users thanked h2video.nl for this useful post.
TV97 on 25/12/2016, Yamato on 20/01/2017
NiBTour
#11 Posted : Sunday, 25 December 2016 8:37:38 AM
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h2video.nl wrote:
tried it again and i first assigned all sdi inputs. can not select like with the 8 input card, but i have to activate the inputs in bm manager.

in the end i managed to get 3 inputs working, one output active and i managed to daisychain one extra input through thunder3 to 2 conversion and using a bm thunderbolt 2 mini capture. so 4 inputs and one output.

next thing on the list is to get 5 inputs active and try to hook on the displayport to hdmi output for monitoring (output) and or external streaming or wifi streaming.

anyway, getting there and very happy because my set is getting bigger in capabilities and smaller in size... 3 inputs and one output is enough for me for most recordings.

have a good holliday season everybody...
stefan


You should be able to get 8 channel with the 8 port card and 4 with the duo 2
http://www.vmix.com/know...-quad2-to-be-8-channels
h2video.nl
#12 Posted : Tuesday, 27 December 2016 11:11:59 AM
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now I can get all 4 inputs active: it's just knowing how to set the inputs active first time around.

I reinstalled the bm software and then activated the sdi inputs of all fpur inputs, by just clicking on the sdi icon of every input.

I guess that when you set the output, it will disable the input. not sure how to turn inputs on again after setting it as an output. will check that later.

most importantly is that this setup is now very compact and a good alternative for an AYa box ( thunderbolt2) and provides 4 inputs /outputs for about 200 euros per input total.

next step is to test the thunder3 with my yuan cards...

NiBTour
#13 Posted : Thursday, 29 December 2016 4:20:04 PM
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h2video.nl wrote:
now I can get all 4 inputs active: it's just knowing how to set the inputs active first time around.

I reinstalled the bm software and then activated the sdi inputs of all fpur inputs, by just clicking on the sdi icon of every input.

I guess that when you set the output, it will disable the input. not sure how to turn inputs on again after setting it as an output. will check that later.

most importantly is that this setup is now very compact and a good alternative for an AYa box ( thunderbolt2) and provides 4 inputs /outputs for about 200 euros per input total.

next step is to test the thunder3 with my yuan cards...




yeah let me know how they work with yuan. i'm thinking of getting them and stop getting BMD
h2video.nl
#14 Posted : Friday, 30 December 2016 12:55:07 AM
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Hi NABtour,

the good news and the bad from a yuan card test in the Akitio thunder 3:

the good is: it just works, installed vmix yuan driver, put the yuan card in the Akitio and got an input. no problem. tested it with a two sdi input card. nice thing about these sdi input cards is they have a loop through on the inputs. I use that for direct projection on a screen at live events and bypass vmix.

the yuan card is input only, so unlike the bm card you can not configure an input to be an output...

more importantly however ( the bad ).

the yuan card i used has the first sdi input very low on the card. about 1 cm lower than the first sdi input on the bm duo 2 ( that is actually the reference which I don't use). The yuan input is so low that it is not possible to use it, or you would have to attach some converter or something.... Maybe it also blocks the card from really getting into the slot aswell, but i think it is just on. but the sdi input it thight to the akitio box, so no room left for a cable.

Anyway: this disqualifies the yuan card for me at this moment.

I think the bm duo 2 offers such sharp price pojnt per input and such versatility with a choise of input output configurations, the card is hard to beat.

will do some more tests with the bm card... pe i noticed the card will convert the sdi input which is 1080i50 automatically to 1080psf25. not bad, but maybe i would prefer vmix to handle the deinterlacing... not sure.

greetings,
stefan

richardgatarski
#15 Posted : Saturday, 31 December 2016 6:48:15 AM
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Quote:
input is so low that it is not possible to use it, or you would have to attach some converter or something

Yeah, sorry forgot to mention that. Same thing with my Magewell XI400DE-HDMI. In my view the Akitio box is badly designed, as I have never had similar problems with any type of backplane. Amazed that none of the reviewes I found on the web (before buying) mentioned that.

My current fix is to insert a small Nut between the chassi and the card's mounting screw hole.

/richard

ps could you perhaps spell Akitio correct in the topic's name, and perhaps someone could move it to the Hardware section
/nitpicker ;)
Yamato
#16 Posted : Friday, 20 January 2017 11:39:40 AM
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I've been using a Skull Canyon NUC also with an Akitio TB3 and 15" Gechic LCD screen. All packed in my backpack with a small cabin luggage for cameras and sound mixer, handy setup.

I didn't even think about daisy chaining some stuff of the Akitio box, awesome idea, thank for the tips Stefan !
I'll try to borrow another Akitio TB3 and try to daisy chain it with a Yuan 2 HDMI input card (if i can find someone selling it, so far the only good price i found was on Amazon US, Yuan won't even reply to my mails asking for a suppliers list in Europe)
It would be neat for me to get 3 SDI input, 2 HDMI Input 1 SDI Input

I'm just a little worried about the Intel Iris graphics and render time though, but i also have a MSI GE63VR Laptop with a 1060 which should do the trick probably.

Regards,
Valentin
h2video.nl
#17 Posted : Friday, 20 January 2017 4:55:33 PM
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Hi Valentin,
I am ayuan cards reseller so if you want to purchase let me know.

be aware though the akitio housing might block the lower port, at least with the yuan 4 input cards the lower input is blocked.

I would recommend using the black magic duo 2 card because it provides 4 inputs or outputs in any config. in a small setup you don't need to daisy chain. having the bm handles the output is very convenient, bacause you also control the sound.

cheers stefan
Yamato
#18 Posted : Tuesday, 24 January 2017 3:42:57 AM
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Oh, great new Stefan !
For information, i already have an Akitio Thunder3 with Duo 2 inside, my plan was trying to chain a 2nd Akitio Thunder3 with a Yuan dual HDMI input capture card, because in gaming we still use HDMI a lot and i don't have budget for goods converters like Decimators.

As for the compatiblity between Akitio Thunder 3 box and Yuan Quad SDI, i think you can mod it with tools like Dremel. I understand people would be reluctant to drill a 300€ case, but in my case it's already heavily modded with an added fan on the side and some wiring for also plugging a GTX 1060 inside with enough air cooling :)

Stefan, if you are okay, i will send you a direct message to ask you for a quote when i will get some funds for a SC542N4 HDMI. First i'm getting a Z620 workstation to get rid of my custom X99 setup.

Regards,
Valentin
h2video.nl
#19 Posted : Tuesday, 24 January 2017 6:05:07 PM
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will receive a second akitio enclosure today and will test a daisy chain.

more options anf flexibility if it works!!

I have also contacted akitio about the design and problems with the lower input on some cards like yuan. it seems like a mere 2-3 mm, and raising the inner attachment of the akitio pcie works a few mm ( just attach it a little higher on the outer frame) would solve the issue.

anyway, no problem with using the blackmagic duo 2 which would be my first choise of card.

keep you posted,
stefan
h2video.nl
#20 Posted : Wednesday, 25 January 2017 1:17:45 AM
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guess it would be too good to be true- daisy chaining endless akitio pcie boxes untill we can reach Martins magical number of 1.000 inputs.

but alass... did not get it to work...

i can see the second box in thunderbolt but not the cards. tried to switch bm first yuan second, but Vmix only sees the inputs that are seen. with bm you have to open the inputs first with the bm software. but when second in line in the daisy it will not see the card.

it works with daisy chaining a bm mini recorder through the thunder 3 to 2 cable and attaching the bm mini thunder2 to it.

so in theory one could manage 4+1 input and use a displayport to hdmi to get an external screen output for streaming or other output uses.

so no luck this far. there might just be one option left and that is a second bm card in the second box and bm seeing it as one... but my guess is no.

will feedback to akitio though and adk to be sure.

they already reported they have design looking into the low input blocked by frame issue.

keep you posted. ideas and reactions welcome.
stefan
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