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Vuurmannetje  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, September 4, 2018 3:25:16 PM(UTC)
Vuurmannetje

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Hey everyone, so I thought you might be interested in the Journey I've just started in building my a mobile studio based on Vmix for my little company.
The plan is to have it up and running in about a month from now, and Ill keep a sort of journey posted here.

So first of all, some design pictures!

[img]https://imgur.com/9neEsCv[/img][img]https://imgur.com/L7w3tcN[/img]
[img]https://imgur.com/ieJaBrn[/img][img]https://imgur.com/0Y3q2Uq[/img]
[img]https://imgur.com/jbOpcvW[/img][img]https://imgur.com/3RDYZBk[/img]

This is has now gone to a couple of casebuilders to get quotations on it.
Apart from this main setup there will be a second smaller multifunctional set.
Ive chosen for minimal hardware IO since most of my workflow is NDI based.

The small setup will be used for PTZ control (PTZ optics NDI cameras) with an Xkeys Joystick. On top of that it will be able to do anything Vmix can if the production demands: Redundant Recording, Small event Video production, Encoding, Instant replay, whatver my client needs. Hardware:

Ryzen 7 1700
16GB ram
GTX1060 6GB
970 EVO M.2 SSD
Blackmagic Decklink 4K Pro

The large setup consists of 2 computers. One main video hub beast and one still fast sattelite. The main computer will handle any hardware IO and most of the heavy lifting on the NDI side. The sattelite will be used for administration and support. So some events it will run videos others it will be instant replay, basically a flexible sattelite.
The entire setup will be housed in the case as seen above, with UPS power supplies, and flexible patching. The upper 2 screens are proper color 4k displays, the bottom 3 are 1080p ones for sytem operation.
The drawer will contain an Xkeys 124 with lever and a Xkeys 64 JOG for replays and video controls.

Sattelite hardware:
Ryzen 7 2700X
16GB ram
GTX1070ti
2x 970 EVO M.2 SSD
Blackmagic Decklink 4K Pro

Beast hardware:
Threadripper 2990WX
16GB ram
1080ti
Blackmagic Decklink 4K Pro
Blackmagic Decklink 4K Extreme 12G

As you can see Ive chosen for a AMD based investment. Currently I run multiple PCs with windows which Im quite happy with, but with my heavy NDI workflow, Ive decided for as much multicore performance as I could get for the budgets per computer. Especially the Beast has the new Threadripper 2, which beats any other CPU on the market at the moment, both on regular benchmarks as well as Multicore benchmarks. 32 cores is just sweet for NDI workflow. My experience with i5 sattelites has been that Id rather had more cores for the same money for my workflow. However, since almost everyone runs Intel at the moment, its a bit of a leap of faith, but Ill keep yall posted. I also didnt like losing 5% performance due to Spectre and Meltdown, I really notice it on a sat that runs the i5 that ran at 80% before, and now gets close to 90% too often for my liking (water cooled, so temp is fine)

I hope I posted this in the correct place. Shoot questions and advice, Ill filter out the harsh words :P
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stevespaw  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 5, 2018 11:55:44 AM(UTC)
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This looks nice and interesting, but I sure that you will regret your choice of CPU. You are trying to save a few dollars, but poor vMix performance with these CPU's has been documented on this forum. As someone that invested in many x99 chipset systems to find stuttering issues, it hurt the value of vMix until I was able to replace them all. I would have someone build one and test it thoroughly that would take it back if it did not work well with vMix.

Otherwise good luck,

Steve
Vuurmannetje  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 5, 2018 12:00:36 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the feedback, but as far as I know those issues were related to the Threadripper 1 X99 chipset. Threadripper 1 is known to have lag based performance issues, hence they were never the king of anything. Threadripper 2 has solved those issues tho, and is only a bit over a month old.

If it turns out performance sucks I will be swapping it for an i9, but multithread performance per dollar is lower for intel.

The Ryzen 7s are on B450 chipset, and I had some feedback that they run without issue, so there its a case at looking at budget and seeing what has the best performance, instead of lowering the budget to match a performance.

One update now tho is that my Blackmagic suplier is out of 4K pros for the next month, so Ill be installing 8k Pros, which downsample without issue anyways.
stevespaw  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 5, 2018 12:40:31 PM(UTC)
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We all look forward to hearing about your Threadripper and Ryzen performance!

Steve
Vuurmannetje  
#5 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2018 5:23:03 PM(UTC)
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Got in my patch fields. New attachments!
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Vuurmannetje  
#6 Posted : Sunday, September 16, 2018 4:39:37 PM(UTC)
Vuurmannetje

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Visited the casebuilder yesterday. All looks good to go!

Also received the parts for the computers, which ill be assembling and testing over the next weeks.
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Kevinario  
#7 Posted : Sunday, September 16, 2018 5:29:27 PM(UTC)
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Hey i'm enjoying the build guide keep it up.

I was wondering why you are going for the 2990WX over the 2950X?
From looking at the benchmarks and architecture it seems like 2950x is the more logical choice.
Vuurmannetje  
#8 Posted : Monday, September 17, 2018 5:30:31 AM(UTC)
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Luxury mostly.

But the 2950 wasn't on hand for the right price when I ordered this system. So the 2990 was only slightly more expensive for me. From what I got from TIm higher single core speed is preferably for Vmix, but with the intended use of this system Ill have good advantage of the higher core count. This system will run mostly NDI sources, which are very multi-core native.

Later today Ill be assembling them anyways, and over the week Ill try to get some testing done.
Vuurmannetje  
#9 Posted : Monday, September 17, 2018 3:23:42 PM(UTC)
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So, finished putting together all 3 systems.

Some pictures of the BEAST server with TR
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Vuurmannetje  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, September 18, 2018 8:36:09 AM(UTC)
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Another day another unpacking.

So last night I stayed up to troubleshoot the BEAST not booting to BIOS. After hardware troubleshooting first, turns out it needed a BIOS flash to support Threadripper 2. The ryzens no issues at all.
Do need to figure out why it wont go to 3600 mhz OC clock on memory, or alternatively get as high as they want to go stable. But ill do that with the OC utilities instead of raw bios.

So for unpacking today I went through and got rid of a lot of packaging material, and found some xkeys!

Tbar and Jog will go into the main system, Joystick is for my PTZ set, although I might also give that one a stand alone joystick/xbox controller as well.

Later in the week ill be doing testing and starting my default (for rent) presets in Vmix, which will be matched by Xkeys layout.
Any advice for that one is welcome (as is any advice) even though I already have in mind what needs to be on there.
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thanks 1 user thanked Vuurmannetje for this useful post.
PI48895 on 9/21/2018(UTC)
Vuurmannetje  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, September 19, 2018 11:26:07 AM(UTC)
Vuurmannetje

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So the BEAST is all assembled and installed. Just waiting on the Deckling Quad2 Duo or W/e its called.

So I just put up a medium load test setup with 20 Video inputs running at 1080p60 55mbps bitrate, mixed with some H264 .mkv videos, a live webcam, some NDI feeds from my workstation.

Main goal of the initial test: Test hardware stability. Cant have it crashing ever. Like never ever. Render times look stable under 16ms (1 keyframe at 60fps) NDI render times look even better, with some pictures perfectly aligning the sync test.

EDIT: Attaching has errors. So IMGUR!

https://imgur.com/nnpz4f0
Vuurmannetje  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, September 19, 2018 11:50:37 AM(UTC)
Vuurmannetje

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Ill also take some tips for endurance/stress testing new setups. Will most likely run SDI outputs on my satellite to get that tested, but other options welcome
jvphobic  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, September 19, 2018 3:22:04 PM(UTC)
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Has anyone done tests with the Threadripper 2? I saw the issues with ripper 1.

And man, I can't wait to see your finished product!
Siroki  
#14 Posted : Thursday, September 20, 2018 3:58:21 AM(UTC)
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Also cant wait to see finished system
Vuurmannetje  
#15 Posted : Thursday, September 20, 2018 7:56:54 AM(UTC)
Vuurmannetje

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There's a thread currently in hardware compatibility about TR2 performance with vmix and converters. Current results look great for my choice, although ill be using a lot more NDI then their tests hence using the 2990 instead of 2950. Over th next week Ill run some tests amd share those results, but for now it seems any old issues were resolved.

Basically gen 1 ryzen had a response delay on pci lanes causing them to underperform. My current tests show that I can get unser average keyframe latency.

Kevinario  
#16 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2018 10:12:59 AM(UTC)
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Vuurmannetje wrote:
There's a thread currently in hardware compatibility about TR2 performance with vmix and converters. Current results look great for my choice, although ill be using a lot more NDI then their tests hence using the 2990 instead of 2950. Over th next week Ill run some tests amd share those results, but for now it seems any old issues were resolved.

Basically gen 1 ryzen had a response delay on pci lanes causing them to underperform. My current tests show that I can get unser average keyframe latency.



I have been trying to locate information about the "delay on pci lanes" but it seems a bit difficult. Do you know where and what information i can use to compare this delay/latency on between gen 1, gen 2 ryzen and also the i9 series. It would be helpfull to me with deciding what CPU to go for the new build i am creating, and i think others might be interested as well.
Vuurmannetje  
#17 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2018 12:00:27 PM(UTC)
Vuurmannetje

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I dont have specific sources for this.

I do know from Tim that the way the architecture handled calls from PCIE to CPU had a certain delay/latency to it which made it underperform for Vmix (and games) compared to Intel processors. In some reviews about Gen 2 Ryzen, youll read about this, I think Linus mentioned this on his first news about TR2/Ryzen 2 as did Jayztwocents.
PI48895  
#18 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2018 2:41:27 PM(UTC)
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In case this is helpful in planning your layout, we have some PDF files you can use to create alternative layouts before making the physical changes to the boards.

This one is for the 128 and 124 T-bar: https://www.dropbox.com/...g%20grid%20FORM.pdf?dl=0

This one works for our XK-80 and the XK-68 units: https://www.dropbox.com/...g%20grid%20FORM.pdf?dl=0

For those rack mounted units, you could use two rows out of the 128 form. I hope this is helpful and thanks again for sharing.

>Dan
Vuurmannetje  
#19 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2018 2:45:05 PM(UTC)
Vuurmannetje

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PI48895 wrote:
In case this is helpful in planning your layout, we have some PDF files you can use to create alternative layouts before making the physical changes to the boards.

This one is for the 128 and 124 T-bar: https://www.dropbox.com/...g%20grid%20FORM.pdf?dl=0

This one works for our XK-80 and the XK-68 units: https://www.dropbox.com/...g%20grid%20FORM.pdf?dl=0

For those rack mounted units, you could use two rows out of the 128 form. I hope this is helpful and thanks again for sharing.

>Dan


Thanks Dan, Ill have a play around once I got to making my default rental preset.
Vuurmannetje  
#20 Posted : Monday, September 24, 2018 5:23:10 PM(UTC)
Vuurmannetje

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Quiet week this week. All 3 computers have been running Vmix and NDI tests and have passed stability with flying colors.

This monday Im getting the last rack parts so Im good to solder my last stuff (audio) and screw in the SDI ports.

Ive also decided to upgrade the intended NDI switch to one with 4x 10Gigabit ports (and 24x POE+) so I can get away with 1x 10Gbit Base-T card in the server for upto 100 default NDI streams (I doubt the cpu can handle that, but if it can, ill let let you know haha). WAN will be running on a separate switch on the regular ethernet port.

Aside from that Im delaying my PTZ set purchase to next year, because of the SDK announcement, which will being higher quality or cheaper current quality NDI cameras (currently NDI is a feature that costs extra, instead of a default). Instead Im buying an extra Decklink Quad 2 to convert the Ryzen 5 into a small Vmix setup that doubles as an I/O box for the modular setup. The rest of that reserved money will go into a couple of extra NDI converters, probably some Birddog minis for conventions. So that gives me a total of 16 3G SDI inputs, 2x 8K I/O which'll run on 4k unless someone rents it for capture. And 1x 4K I/O on multiple connection types. Add in a couple of Converters and Im set for a while. That is, if I can fit it in between my GPU and all haha. Else Ill just keep the 8K as a backup on this PC.

So tomorrow, soldering time then showing off my completed Patch Panel.



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