logo

Live Production Software Forums


Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
colintve  
#1 Posted : Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:16:47 AM(UTC)
colintve

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/21/2017(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: UK

With vMix's fantastic unconventional way of working, and with the ability to provide two separate outputs, could a new "dual output mode" be created that turns the preview monitor into the second output monitor, and allow transitions?

This would provide many of our clients with a huge benefit, as many clients operate vMix for multiple big screens, or one output to big screens and one to streaming, mostly the same but occasionally different.

Many sports stadiums have two or more screens and to control both from one vMix is very advantageous, and is currently done with a lot of X-Keys programming, inputs to outputs, and with the multiview layers options in heavy use.

I would also really like to be able to fade in and out the multiview layers instead of cutting only using shortcuts.

I realise this may be a big programming ask, but truly believe a premium of perhaps double the cost of the Pro software for this option would be achievable, as most organisations spending £20k+ on big screens will not worry about a little extra for the driving software.

DWAM  
#2 Posted : Sunday, July 23, 2017 6:05:00 AM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,121
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 149 times
Was thanked: 606 time(s) in 469 post(s)
Hi Colin

I use 2 different methods to switch for External2.

The 1st one is using a Midi Controller like the Akai Mini
Here's a demo video showing how to "double-switch" with it (for PGM and EXT2 going to big screen)
https://forums.vmix.com/....aspx?g=posts&t=9765

Solution #2 is to use vMixUTC, a third-party donationware controller for vMix. Though it was initially designed for title management, it anyway allows to switch inputs for any output and benefits from integrated NDI monitoring
UTC can be found here : https://forums.vmix.com/....aspx?g=posts&t=6468

I did many tutorials and demo videos here : https://forums.vmix.com/....aspx?g=posts&t=9393
This one shows how to switch specifically for EXT2: https://forums.vmix.com/...ts&m=34998#post34998
This one shows how to switch specifically for overlays inside multiviews aswell as using multiple layouts for a single multiview input (same thing as with the Akai Mini) : https://forums.vmix.com/...ts&m=34980#post34980

Regarding the use of transitions effects inside multiviews I have no solution

Best regards
Guillaume
IceStream  
#3 Posted : Sunday, July 23, 2017 7:21:09 AM(UTC)
IceStream

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/7/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,136
Man
Location: Canada

Thanks: 29 times
Was thanked: 375 time(s) in 356 post(s)
@ colintve

I agree with Guillaume in that there are currently alternative options to accomplish some of the things you suggest. I also think there would be an inherant "danger" in using the Preview screen as a secondary "switched" Output. The way vMix is designed, the switching is always from Preview to Program, meaning there is never a direct 'take' or 'cut' to Program, it always goes to Preview first, even if just for a few milliseconds. This would wreak havoc with any secondary programming you would want to switch via the Preview Screen.
I think using Guillaume's suggested methods above or using NDI and a second computer are much better options than re-writing the software. Just my thoughts on the matter.
I would however like to see some options for the transitioning IN and OUT of Overlays in MultiLayer Inputs.
So + 1 for that.


Ice
colintve  
#4 Posted : Sunday, July 23, 2017 7:58:41 AM(UTC)
colintve

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/21/2017(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: UK

HI guys,

Thanks for your comments, and I understand your positions. Although my status is a NEWBIE, I am ex BBC and the main dealer in the UK for vMix and have been installing and using vMix in the UK for a few years now. I do already install and use the 2 output thing at many shows and installations, using shortcuts on X-Keys mostly.

I understand the premise and use of PREVIEW of course, and used to use it. But, vMix also has the option to cut straight to the output, to any of the outputs, and we use this all the time at Soccer installations, for example. When a goal is scored, one button is pressed on an X-Keys and a VT goal animation is played, the home score is increased by one, the second output (for the separate scoreboard) plays a different animation in synch, and the it all cuts back to "normal" afterwards.

Although many/most people use vMix for streaming and vision mixing (as we do), this type of installation that I am talking about is for people who have probably never seen or heard of the preview and TX way of doing things. VMIX almost encourages this other way of working with the many options to send inputs straight to outputs. The mouse click option to send an input to an output for example, which we use on touch screens sometimes to allow a user to touch the image they want to go to main screen. Most non professionals like, and prefer, this way of working.

vMix is a very different set up of vision mixing compared to Tricaster and traditional mixers, and is capable of so much, that I am suggesting perhaps a version could be made where the PREVIEW window is clearly highlighted to show it is in DUAL OUTPUT MODE, for example (to avoid any confusion for traditional mixers), that would allow normal operators to easily control 2 separate outputs, with transitions.

I currently run two outputs this way already sometimes, as it is easy to set an X-Keys to send an input to either PREVIEW or MAIN TX out, and have an output set to PREVIEW. The only thing this second output does not have is transitions. I can even use OVERLAYS in the preview.

I have many clients, and know I will have many potential clients, who would happily pay a lot more for this option, so I am just asking/hoping it may be considered. Perhaps a new fork of vMix especially for this function.

I am happy to read all your comments and certainly am not suggesting a change to the traditional way of vMix operation :)
DWAM  
#5 Posted : Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:15:49 AM(UTC)
DWAM

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,121
Man
France
Location: Bordeaux, France

Thanks: 149 times
Was thanked: 606 time(s) in 469 post(s)
I couldn't agree more and share your expectations regarding the use of PREVIEW.

As a matter of fact I use it the same way as you suggest when dealing with remote guests from Skype for example, when I need to feed the beamer with the guest for the audience in PGM, but "sub-switch" for the guest with all relevant inputs for him (the person he speaks to, the slides he's talking about, the audience when asking questions, etc...). In this case, being able to switch inputs "visually" for PGM and PVW is great.
I did a feature request for this, having the ability to send back PREVIEW for vMixCalls
https://forums.vmix.com/....aspx?g=posts&t=9515

I understand you have already figured out how to use FULLSCREEN 2 for PVW, which is a solution for what you want at the expense of losing multiview monitoring unfortunately.
I heard vMix 20 to be released in beta by the time of IBC will have more external outs. With new GTX models giving us more outputs solutions, maybe it will be easier and more convenient... Albeit I don't know if it underlies a fullscreen 3...

This discussion also reminds me of a feature request I did some months ago. It was about a new input type that would act as an internal AUX for sub-switching like we can do with a traditional switchers. It could be an alternative solution for what you expect.
Here's the thread about it. Maybe you could give it a +1 if you find it relevant.
https://forums.vmix.com/....aspx?g=posts&t=8622

As suggested in this topic, the VirtualSet input is possibly an answer. Did you try experimenting with it?
When used with multiviews it allows to switch independently of PGM/streaming/recording. Put it in PVW with FULLSCREEN2, it's close.
Also did a demo video (I'm not proud of, though it was fun) for this
https://forums.vmix.com/....aspx?g=posts&t=9555

No transition abilities either though. ;o(

Lastly (for the moment) I can suggest what I do from time to time: having a 2 vMix setup with NDI
This solution is perfect for a double direction with transition effect and all the bells and whistles...
Most guys don't like it because of the extra cost, but when the budget is fine, it's certainly the best solution

Guillaume
IceStream  
#6 Posted : Sunday, July 23, 2017 12:07:04 PM(UTC)
IceStream

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/7/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,136
Man
Location: Canada

Thanks: 29 times
Was thanked: 375 time(s) in 356 post(s)
@ colintve

Your points are well taken and I believe that thinking outside the box should always be encouraged when it comes to finding new and better ways of doing things. There is obviously a want and a need for such functionality and I am not opposed to having more and better options within vMix. I think the “switcher within a switcher” idea will eventually come to pass since, as you state, there are already “use case” scenarios in place, and it has been a topic of discussion previously. The realist in me however, makes me believe, based on vMix’s current mode of operation, that it is not something that can be easily adjusted by Martin without doing a major re-write of the software (but then again, I’m not a programmer, so what do I know, he never ceases to amaze me), so while I agree that it would potentially be a great feature for those that have the need, it would also add more complexities for the average user if not introduced and applied properly. Since there are currently “workaround” options available, my expectations would not be to see something like this before vMix 21 or even vMix23 if the request garners traction (which I hope it does, so + 1 for that).
Just my thoughts.
It should also be mentioned that it’s not the first time that requests have been made to change the nature of the UI and the use of the Preview screen and it’s space (although, most of those are about screen estate and the perceived uselessness of that screen). It’s likely a tough balancing act trying to both appeal to the traditionalists and appease the next generation of enthusiasts.


Ice
colintve  
#7 Posted : Sunday, July 23, 2017 2:25:14 PM(UTC)
colintve

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/21/2017(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: UK

Thanks for all your comments, support for the idea, and constructive criticism. I hope Martin sees these posts and can let us know if the ideas could be feasible. Obviously, if it is a major rewrite of the vMix system I wont expect it to happen (and I am no programmer either), but if you don't ask :)...

I love the vMix forum as you do seem to get such excellent responses and intelligent support compared to most other sites and forums.

Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.