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StepBackInTime_TV  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, May 23, 2018 7:19:24 AM(UTC)
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Hi

Is anyone else experiencing high render times, high GPU and CPU usage, since upgrading to Windows 10 build 1803 (Spring Feature Update) ? It doesn't seem to affect everyone, but certain hardware combinations do seem to suffer (both desktop and laptop). I see lots of reports of gamers having problems with it - so its not unique to vMix.

My hardware:

MSI Laptop - GL72 7QF
- Intel i7-7700HQ CPU, Quad core 2.8 - 3.5 Ghz
- 16Gb RAM
- Intel 630 graphics
- nVidia 960m GPU (2Gb GDDR5)
- Windows 10 (home) 64bit
- DirectX 12
- System drive is 128Gb SSD

The nVidia GPU is selected in vMix performance settings. I've tried it with/without Optimus (which it used to require).

With only vMix loaded, no inputs (just the 2 empty inputs that you get when you start vMix with no project loaded), I'm getting 3-9ms render time and 1-2% vMix CPU usage (Total ~5%).

It takes no time to get the render time up over 30ms and start getting CPU & GPU warnings.

The performance seems to be around 50% of what it used to be with the previous release of windows and the same nVidia drivers.

So far, it has rendered this laptop useless for vMix - which is very irritating, considering it was working very nicely before.

I could roll it back, but eventually I'm going to be forced to update it for some reason, so I'm trying to fix it rather than give-in!

I am sure this will turn out not to be a vMix issue - it works perfectly on my desktop system with 1803.

G.
admin  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:20:08 AM(UTC)
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Hi,

What does Task Manager say in regards to which processes are using the most CPU and GPU %?
There are a couple of things I can think of that might be contributing to the problem:

1. Laptop bundled GPU software, this may have been reinstalled along with the update, so uninstalling as much MSI branded
apps as possible that seem GPU related could help here.

2. Windows could be running under more aggressive CPU power management after the update.
So check the power options in the Windows Control Panel to be sure it is running under High Performance.

Failing that, if you are able to setup a system showing the problem we would be happy to remote in via TeamViewer and take a look.

Regards,

Martin
vMix
thanks 1 user thanked admin for this useful post.
StepBackInTime_TV on 5/23/2018(UTC)
StepBackInTime_TV  
#3 Posted : Thursday, May 24, 2018 4:56:11 AM(UTC)
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Hi Martin,

I've just set it all up as it was on Monday and have snapped a shot of the task manager - https://www.dropbox.com/...5-23%2009.43.11.png?dl=0 . The CPU goes up to 100% - but the attached shows it at 93%

I'm using the latest nVidia driver downloaded direct from nVidia.com .

Windows is set to 'high performance' mode.

I'll set-up team viewer and send you an email with access info.

Many thanks.

Giles.
StepBackInTime_TV  
#4 Posted : Thursday, May 24, 2018 6:33:30 AM(UTC)
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Thanks to Martin for having a look at this. I had several desktop-capture inputs (5 of them) in my profile, which were used to capture different windows (2 zoom, 3 full-screen). This worked fine before I upgraded everything.

Having installed the windows update and latest nVidia GPU driver, I could no longer capture individual windows. Apparently this feature has not been available for a while on Optimus, so I must have been using a very old driver. Anyway, this lead to me doing 5 full-screen captures, and this is where it started to boil-over.

Having taken Martin's advice, things seem to be pretty stable again now - thanks Martin. 2 Full-screen captures seem to be fine (on this hardware).

To quote Martin:

Quote:
Thanks for setting this up.
It looks to be stable now after I tried closing the 5x desktop capture inputs being used.
Each desktop capture input on NVIDIA optimus laptops has to do a resource intensive copy from the GPU to CPU and then back to GPU again can quickly shoot up the resource usage, even for a single capture input.
To work around this, set up just one per display needed, then create virtual inputs to create different crop points.

On the other hand if it had dedicated graphics the path is direct on the GPU with no overhead, so just one of the many things that can be slower than expected on optimus unfortunately....

melody  
#5 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2018 6:03:13 AM(UTC)
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hi,

unfortunately, after dealing with a lot of issues after windows update, for now i decided to backup my important data, make a clean install of the most recent version of windows 10 and permanently disable Windows Update Service.

it is incredible what Windows Updates can do in a machine, it is supose to correct bugs, fix problems, improve performance but all i have seen is very high end machines working like a snail.

take care guys, system updates may screw your system.

cheers,

melody
mjgraves  
#6 Posted : Saturday, May 26, 2018 6:03:44 PM(UTC)
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My experience was that the Windows update didn't impact things . The nVidia update was really bad.

Luckily, I had made an image of the system prior to the Windows update. Rolling back Windows was easy, but the problem persisted. So I rolled the nVidia driver back to the Q4-2017 release. That solved the problem.

Then I allowed Windows to update and the problem did not return. On that basis, I've not let nVidia updater do anything automatically.
MWilson  
#7 Posted : Sunday, May 27, 2018 10:52:38 PM(UTC)
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Melody - I wouldn't recommend permanently disabling Windows update, for alot of reasons. Instead, I advise doing it in cycles. Here's what I've done for the upcoming football season.

1. Disable Windows Update at 3 Different Levels, it will not be permitted to update going forward.

2. Once our big broadcast season is over, I'll take a few days, make an image backup, update the PC, and thoroughly test it for performance and stability, until I'm confident it's in a stable state. (If it's not, restore image backup, try again a few months later.)

3. Then I'll disable updates again.

This may not be the best approach, but I personally prefer the OS being moderately outdated than severely outdated. Windows Updates are released frequently which bring performance improvements to vMix. So I tend to stick to the freeze/thaw cycle, leaving it "frozen' during or near important productions.

Just me though :)
melody  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2018 8:03:04 AM(UTC)
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mjgraves and MWilson
anyway you guys need to disable updates, the diference is you make an image of your systems to restore every time you want (nothing against it) and i backup all important data (not image) to install everything from scratch when i see its important, witch i never needed to rolling back.
i had experienced the most sort of issues after updates, including on vMix performance, cpu works from 20% (before update) to 80% (after update), stability issues due to random drivers malfunction, blue screens... no modifications as been maded, only update. after did a clean install of system everything works perfectly.
about drivers, you have no idea about issues i had with network drivers after updates, the machines simply lost access between them with same settings before, was terrible. no reset/changing settings or drivers update has worked for me.
graphic drivers had issues too with all manufacturers. everything worked well after clean install of windows.
normaly i install the most recent drivers for all my hardware components when i do a clean install of windows, i never let drivers update automaticaly, i only update drivers manually and when its realy important.

basicaly, i deal with many machines, including laptops, and for me a moderately and severely outdated system is subjective... it depends on what features or fixes makes you working better.

cheers,
melody
kgoodyer  
#9 Posted : Monday, June 11, 2018 5:10:19 AM(UTC)
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Just updated my main system - massive render times, Neither CPU or GPU seem to be overloaded.

Been using since V16 without any rendering issues - whats happened?

CPU max 60%
GPU 3D max 40%

Win 10 Pro 1803
Latest Nvidia Drivers (just drivers none of the bulge)
Vmix 21.0.0.44


render times 72ms!!!!!!!
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spencerm24  
#10 Posted : Monday, June 11, 2018 9:53:38 AM(UTC)
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I've noticed similar behavior with vMix, the CPU usage is off the charts for a system that used to be able to handle almost anything thrown at it, now 4 cams, stream and record causes it to go to over 75%.

I may have to reinstall Windows and use an older NVIDIA Driver if that is what seems to be the culprit, at least according to this thread.
bobdoyle  
#11 Posted : Monday, June 11, 2018 10:29:32 AM(UTC)
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Same deal here only my shows are spiking up to 100% at times and running at close to 80% even before recording or streaming. This was not always the case. I'm not sure the best way to approach this because there seems to be several possible culprits and I just don't have the bandwidth to "test" completely backing up and rebuilding my system setup from scratch.

Hopefully very specific things can be nailed down and there can be some kind of checklist created to help us troubleshoot what specifically might be causing these CPU drains that we can actually fix. I'm going through and trying to streamline the show as best I can, eliminating unused inputs, videos, etc. But right now, even doing basically nothing, it's idling around 60% and when I start to do anything, it pops back up to the high 70's, 80's and above.
kgoodyer  
#12 Posted : Monday, June 11, 2018 1:30:59 PM(UTC)
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I have added to screen caps in my post above, showing that Task Manager is not showing excessive use of the CPU or GPU, yet VMIX is reporting 'GPU overload. I also note that whilst I encoding a h.264 rtmp webstream, using ffmpeg/use hardware acceleration that NO GPU Encoder or decoder bandwidth is being used. Indicating that the Gforce Hardware encoder is not actually being used.

I am considering this may be a Nvidia driver issue. I was fully updated on my NVIDIA drivers before the Win 10 1803 update, I will try a re-install, and maybe even a downgrade as soon as we are off air.

I dropped the project framer rate from 720p50 to 720p25 - its still overloading and dropping frames.

If anybody else working on this issue can report back on their experiences solving this issue please shout.

Keith
desmar  
#13 Posted : Monday, June 11, 2018 1:32:22 PM(UTC)
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There are a lot of factors to consider in lowering CPU, GPU, and render times.

This where I would start to troubleshoot.
A lot of people are saying due to a Windows update, but not always the case.

1) Check to see if all Drivers are up to date.
(But remember Drivers versions aren't always better.)
There are always bugs/issues..

2) Open Task Manager

3) Look In Task Manager, are there any applications or services
using a lot of CPU, GPU, Ram, Hard Disk etc resources.

4) Question to ask? Do I need these Apps/Services at Startup/Running?
Get rid of any factory/bloatware/anti-virus/Apps/Service etc running
on the system that is not needed.

5) A lot of issues I have seen in 35+ years of servicing PC is

A) Low to no Hard Drive space on OS Drive or Recording/Storage Drive.
B) Not Enough Memory.
C) Internal or External GPU, Proper Video Card selection.

A lot of bottlenecks is due to simple issues stated above.

6) Videos/Pictures etc used in vMix, are they all the same screen size as the stream or
different. (file formats are another issue, are they the most efficient formats used)

Have to remember, if you are streaming at 1080p and your videos/pictures are 480p/720p/1080p
etc... and your streaming 3 streams at different resolutions and recording at another
resolution, size of recording Bit Rate, streaming rates, are the animated titles being
anitmated in vMix or pre-rendered, then this will play a big factor.

I try to have all of the screen resolutions for all media the same resolution as possible to
avoid having the CPU, GPU re-render for different resolutions and try to use the best file
formats possible. (not always possible, but pre-planning is the best solution)


7) Start vMix with no inputs. and verify Task manager for steps 3 - 5.
and slowly start checking every aspect of your stream.

8) One question to ask yourself is? Do I need to record at 25 - 75 MBPS or
is 8 - 20 MBPS good enough..

Hope this helps to resolve some of your issues..



thanks 2 users thanked desmar for this useful post.
mjgraves on 6/12/2018(UTC), Digisaurier on 6/20/2018(UTC)
Joeboe  
#14 Posted : Monday, June 11, 2018 11:57:55 PM(UTC)
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I just can not understand this...2 laptops with similar GPUs, one is running vMix at idle, just 1 SD input @ render time 1Ms, the other is way up, sometimes 3, and sometimes 23..it just fluctuates at about 1 or 2 secs. intervals, with highs ranging from 10 - 23....and I can not find out why....
mjgraves  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, June 12, 2018 11:18:24 AM(UTC)
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kgoodyer wrote:

CPU max 60%
GPU 3D max 40%


The GPU 3D workload reported by Windows is wholly irrelevant.

vMix is clearly reporting GPU overload. The GPU resources that vMix requires are being overtaxed. That are largely 2D resources, which is why the 3D numbers don't matter.

If you are trying to use 3 hardware encoders (different streaming and recording settings) that might well explain the issue.
kgoodyer  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, June 12, 2018 12:58:38 PM(UTC)
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All

VMIX 21.0.0.45 RESOLVED MY ISSUE - For about 2 hours!!!

Now its doing these excessive renders again.

So we have tried....

Old / New Nvidia Drivers
Old / New FocusRite ASIO audio Drivers
Old / New Blackmagic Drivers
Windows 10 1709 /1803
VMIX 20 / VMIX 21

This is happening with both FULLSCREEN OFF, EXTERNAL OFF and NO streaming!!!! But it only happens when my profile is loaded, but same profile has worked for 4 years on this system, and is not an issue when loaded on any of my other Windows 7 based VMIX platforms,

I have a second system with exactly the same hardware, DRAM, Motherboard (ASUS X99 Delux), GPU (Nvidia GFX 960), SSD's etc - only difference is one system has a 3.5Ghz 28 lane CPU, the other a 3.2Ghz 40 lane CPU. This machine that has the issue is the 40 lane (more powerful) system. The other system is perfect - running fully patched Win 7 pro 64bit , latest drivers, VMIX 21.0.0.44

This system has been running for 4 years, with EXACTLY the same 'preset/profile' so it has the same number and type of inputs as its had last week, last month, last year and for the last 4 years, so the system is obviously powerful enough. Just one un-requested microsoft update and my whole business is screwed.

Keith
Jim_C  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, June 12, 2018 3:25:59 PM(UTC)
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Create a new profile?
kgoodyer  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, June 12, 2018 5:37:36 PM(UTC)
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200+ inputs, many of them have layers upon layers of multiview, 100's of triggers, colour corrections, zooms, etc - took me over 6 weeks to develop the profile, and far to much to re-create. Besides profile has run on this platform since VMIX16 runs perfectly on other systems. I have even saved out the profile on V21.0.0.44 ald loaded it up on an old 16.0.0.X and it worked perfectly. We are now estimating that the whole machine seems to be running at about 60% its normal performance but only when running VMIX (any version).
Barney Box Lane  
#19 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2018 6:43:28 AM(UTC)
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we had two computers all exactly the same and one started maxing out and collapsing.. we swapped the Ethernet cable over on each computer and the problem moved over with the Ethernet cable. It was the network being patchy, specifically the wire wasent letting a Gb down it, and the computer was trying to keep this smooth.
Rivercrest  
#20 Posted : Sunday, June 17, 2018 6:13:34 PM(UTC)
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I was able to fix this on my system by disabling all of the Xbox recording permissions in the Xbox apps. Got render time back to 2-3 ms.
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