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rowby  
#1 Posted : Sunday, March 18, 2018 7:03:31 AM(UTC)
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Hello Everyone,

Teamviewer makes an interesting software they call Blizz. I want to test it along with vMix call with Blizz doing the guests' desktop capture.

While Blizz can use audio by default, we would disable Blizz's audio for Blizz in this test. vMix Call would handle the webcam and audio in the usual way.

Would anyone here like to test it with me this weekend. I'll post the results here to see how it works.

I'm in California and in general am available anytime this weekend you would be available. Ideally I would like two people in the test if possible, but can do it with one if that's the only way to go.

The participant would need to download Blizz for the test. There is a free version to do this.

Thanks
Rowby
Barney Box Lane  
#2 Posted : Sunday, March 18, 2018 12:20:02 PM(UTC)
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I'd be up for that but only if you want to stress test it on 1mb upload speed, might not even get off the ground though.

what does blitz do differently to team viewer, is it a communication platform rather than a work thing like teamviewer because that already let's you connect and control a desktop (only one connection at a time?)

TuesdaysLive  
#3 Posted : Sunday, March 18, 2018 12:29:49 PM(UTC)
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I'm not adverse to helping you test it out.
rowby  
#4 Posted : Sunday, March 18, 2018 1:45:29 PM(UTC)
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Hi Barney and Tuesdays

We can try Teamviewer too but Blizz is slightly different. It’s will be easier to explain during the testing which I’ll record and post a link up here.

I will be available today after 2 or. 3 pm Pacific. Or any time that’s okay for you Sunday.

I Prefer to have two people at the same time but can do it with one if necessary. And Barney — a stress test might be interesting :)

Rowby



TuesdaysLive  
#5 Posted : Sunday, March 18, 2018 1:48:18 PM(UTC)
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2 or 3 Pacific is fine with me, being two hours ahead of you. Select one and I'm there.
Barney Box Lane  
#6 Posted : Sunday, March 18, 2018 2:04:41 PM(UTC)
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cool I'm up for that, what time in the UK? I'll dm my email and that'll go straight to my phone
rowby  
#7 Posted : Sunday, March 18, 2018 2:37:51 PM(UTC)
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Hi

I'll double check UK shortly and message you with the preliminaries.

Rowby
rowby  
#8 Posted : Sunday, March 18, 2018 3:07:26 PM(UTC)
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Hi I sent a PM to Barney and seeing if 9pm UK is ok for him (That's 2pm Pacific).

I am doing to try to be ready by 2pm Pacific and will let both of you know.

We'll start out with a vMix Call code that I'll give both of you.

Then download blizz on your end etc etc.

We'll video all of this, if you don't mind, so we can later share it with others here -- as a possible "solution" to desktop sharing.

I've spent days and long hours looking for other solutions that would work without being "too technical" for guests who would want things simple. For example, probably ManyCam is the best solution -- but for those who are not used to switching webcam settings, even that is chancy.

Blizz is more for civilians. Very friendly interface. And I am pretty sure I can get it all working with vMix Call...

The specifics we'll go over during our recorded test -- and everyone can see the steps I am taking to hopefully make it "all work". :)

Rowby
rowby  
#9 Posted : Sunday, March 18, 2018 3:33:02 PM(UTC)
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TuesdaysLive Barney says 3pm Pacific (10 PM UK is good for him.)

I assume 3pm Pacific is okay for you, so I will message you here the vMix call link shortly. Setting things up on my end.

Google says:
3:00 PM Saturday, in Pacific Time is
10:00 PM Saturday, in United Kingdom
TuesdaysLive  
#10 Posted : Sunday, March 18, 2018 3:38:26 PM(UTC)
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Sounds good on this end.
rowby  
#11 Posted : Sunday, March 18, 2018 4:55:04 PM(UTC)
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You would download the FREE version of Blizz here. https://www.blizz.com/en/ The free version lets you connect up to 5 people.

You'll see a button that clearly says FREE.

When you get Blizz installed go to audio and video settings and MUTE both audio and video. This will disable your webcam and your audio settings. You'll see a little Pencil on the right -- that's where you change the settings.

We'll be using vMix Call audio and vMix's Webcam for the video. I have everything set up in a couple of multiviews.

Let's see how seamlessly this goes.

Basically each of you will be HOSTING the Blizz. You will be sending me a meeting ID number and I will join. Both of you will have Blizz running with your desktop ready to go. Either your own desktop or a web page or a powerpoint.

I am running Blizz on a separate laptop with vMix Desktop capture and a second vMix running. Sending via vMix Desktop capture to my main vMix computer.

Before the event you will send me the meeting ID. I, as a Blizz guest, will put in the meeting ID on my end for the first person. Let's say Barney will be first. First with vMix call. Then switch to Blizz -- still showing Barney (and Thursdays) because we need to see vMix callers in order to hear their audio.

When Barney is finished then I will end my meeting with Thursdays. First only with Vmix Xcall then we'll share his desktop using Blizz.



Rowby
rowby  
#12 Posted : Sunday, March 18, 2018 8:03:48 PM(UTC)
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Report on test using Blizz for desktop with vMix Call.

So Barney and Tuesday (Rich) and I did the test.

It worked as expected, except for I was having audio issues on my own microphone. I think I made a glitch in one of my presets.

I will fix my microphone audio tomorrow and then will officially report success.

Blizz is very good, but not perfect. I wish Blizz would let me switch presenters. I don't think Blizz will let you switch presenters. I have a call into Blizz support but don't expect an affirmative response -- at least for now.

So here was our workaround that make it "work".

1) Used vMix call only for webcam and audio.

2) Used Blizz with audio and video muted. I'm only using the audio from vMix call. Only desktop from Blizz.

3) I had Blizz installed on my laptop. I am set up as a Blizz guest. The Blizz caller is the Meeting Host and invites me to view their desktop. I use vMix NDI desktop capture to send the Blizz desktop to my vMix main computer and use it in an input

4) I create another input which includes a Multiview which contains the two vmix calls. My webcam, and the NDI Blizz desktop. I make sure that in the multiview that all vMix callers are seen so we can hear all of their audio. If I showed desktops without vMix callers visible there would be no audio.

5) I let the presenter show their desktop for about 10 minutes. Then I end the first Blizz presentation and switch to another presenter to show their desktop.

This works for me because my programs consist of

1) Intro == me
2) Multiview of all guests in their vMix calls.

3) Each guest gets about 10 minutes to make their presentation. At the close of the presentation I close the Blizz meeting. Then I start a NEW meeting as a guest and "meeting ID" of the next presenter. It just take a few seconds. It might seem awkward but it works very smoothly and quickly. I only have two guests per production at this point.

This works for me. Since my productions are very structured. If I had guests who needed to share their desktops randomly whenever they wanted during a group discussion Blizz would not work. But for me this will be fine.

The ideal solution would be for vMix Call to somehow let guests share their desktop, but I don't think that is technically possible.

There are other "desktop" solutions I have investigated. Some are okay -- others require guests to have some basic technical knowledge of their audio and video systems, which I would not want to get into.

For example, MANYCAMS is an excellent solution -- but even that is something I would rather not use because even though it is simple for me -- I would not want to have to set it up for every guest --and then "undo" the Manycam settings at the end of a production. However if I had the same guests for each show then I would seriously consider Manycams. In my case I have different guests each week.

In any case It was a pleasure to have our hour long session with Barney and Thursday. Live video has a humanizing effect that really brings people to life. Great to see Thursday and Barney "live" -- being so helpful -- and all of us learning from each other.

Rowby
mgrayeb  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2018 9:20:44 AM(UTC)
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rowby wrote:
Report on test using Blizz for desktop with vMix Call.

So Barney and Tuesday (Rich) and I did the test.

It worked as expected, except for I was having audio issues on my own microphone. I think I made a glitch in one of my presets.

I will fix my microphone audio tomorrow and then will officially report success.

Blizz is very good, but not perfect. I wish Blizz would let me switch presenters. I don't think Blizz will let you switch presenters. I have a call into Blizz support but don't expect an affirmative response -- at least for now.

So here was our workaround that make it "work".

1) Used vMix call only for webcam and audio.

2) Used Blizz with audio and video muted. I'm only using the audio from vMix call. Only desktop from Blizz.

3) I had Blizz installed on my laptop. I am set up as a Blizz guest. The Blizz caller is the Meeting Host and invites me to view their desktop. I use vMix NDI desktop capture to send the Blizz desktop to my vMix main computer and use it in an input

4) I create another input which includes a Multiview which contains the two vmix calls. My webcam, and the NDI Blizz desktop. I make sure that in the multiview that all vMix callers are seen so we can hear all of their audio. If I showed desktops without vMix callers visible there would be no audio.

5) I let the presenter show their desktop for about 10 minutes. Then I end the first Blizz presentation and switch to another presenter to show their desktop.

This works for me because my programs consist of

1) Intro == me
2) Multiview of all guests in their vMix calls.

3) Each guest gets about 10 minutes to make their presentation. At the close of the presentation I close the Blizz meeting. Then I start a NEW meeting as a guest and "meeting ID" of the next presenter. It just take a few seconds. It might seem awkward but it works very smoothly and quickly. I only have two guests per production at this point.

This works for me. Since my productions are very structured. If I had guests who needed to share their desktops randomly whenever they wanted during a group discussion Blizz would not work. But for me this will be fine.

The ideal solution would be for vMix Call to somehow let guests share their desktop, but I don't think that is technically possible.

There are other "desktop" solutions I have investigated. Some are okay -- others require guests to have some basic technical knowledge of their audio and video systems, which I would not want to get into.

For example, MANYCAMS is an excellent solution -- but even that is something I would rather not use because even though it is simple for me -- I would not want to have to set it up for every guest --and then "undo" the Manycam settings at the end of a production. However if I had the same guests for each show then I would seriously consider Manycams. In my case I have different guests each week.

In any case It was a pleasure to have our hour long session with Barney and Thursday. Live video has a humanizing effect that really brings people to life. Great to see Thursday and Barney "live" -- being so helpful -- and all of us learning from each other.

Rowby


Very interesting and appreciated Rowby because sometimes on my shows my guests want to present PowerPoint slides. I'm unclear on why you indicated in #4 above that you "make sure that in the multiview that all vMix callers are seen so we can hear all of their audio. If I showed desktops without vMix callers visible there would be no audio." Wouldn't the audience be able to hear all of their audio as long as the "follow video" button was unchecked in the vMix audio mixer for those vMix Call participants?

Also, are you able to use a picture-in-picture setup to show a small live video feed of the guest along with their PowerPoint presentation?

Thanks.
rowby  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2018 10:02:06 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
Very interesting and appreciated Rowby because sometimes on my shows my guests want to present PowerPoint slides. I'm unclear on why you indicated in #4 above that you "make sure that in the multiview that all vMix callers are seen so we can hear all of their audio. If I showed desktops without vMix callers visible there would be no audio." Wouldn't the audience be able to hear all of their audio as long as the "follow video" button was unchecked in the vMix audio mixer for those vMix Call participants?

Also, are you able to use a picture-in-picture setup to show a small live video feed of the guest along with their PowerPoint presentation?

Thanks.


I am finding Blizz to be a very interesting solution for sharing deskstops or apps (powerpoint) for use with vMix Call. I'm doing some more testing later today and Tuesday. I am using the Free version -- which can include 5 people. What's nice is I can change presenters on the fly.

BTW Blizz is made by the TeamViewer people.

So far as I understand anyone who needs to be heard must be visible on the screen (multiview). I would imagine even a zoomed out one pixel size vMix call would be good enough to trigger the accompanied vMix Call audio.

I am not sure, but I don't think that "follow video" would make it work. But you could try that.

I haven't tried using a picture in a picture. But I will try that. For now I am using this kind of a layout. (I have various versions of this graphic depending on who I want to show on the screen -- via multiview.

the below graphics are PNGS with transparent windows. Even though they are showing up as white or black here on the forum. I cut out the windows so they are transparent.

In Multiview I put the videos behind the windows so I can resize and position the vMix callers. And the big window is for Blizz where I show the Desktop. Or I could use Blizz to show a specific application such as a Power Point.

I use a separate laptop for Blizz and use vMix Desktop Capture NDI to bring it into my main vMix PC. I imagine Blizz would work as well on the main PC, but I like having Blizz on my laptop so I can easily work the controls -- switching Presenters, etc.

In the first graphic below, I have three vVmix callers on the left. And the Main Vmix Caller in the big window. But of course there could be a desktop or Powerpoint via Blizz and vMix Desktop Capture instead in that big window.
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TuesdaysLive  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2018 11:39:03 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
So far as I understand anyone who needs to be heard must be visible on the screen (multiview).


My experience has been that the audio of the 'input' you want to be hears only needs be sent to the Master bus. However, your situation may be different, depending on how you've things setup.

In my particular setup, I would simply use a trigger to activate the Master bus for the input, or inputs, that needed to be heard at any given time.

Best of luck.
rowby  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2018 11:59:49 AM(UTC)
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Hi Tuesdays

In this "early days" (a year ago) of vMix Call Roy Price was having a problem hearing vMix callers unless they were visible on the screen. Below is a link to his YouTube video.




Does your method work around the "issue" Roy Price brought up?

Rowby
TuesdaysLive  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2018 1:39:20 PM(UTC)
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I don't know if it is a 'workaround'. However, it is how our workflow is set.

It is my belief, based on the video that was linked, the vMix was set to handle the shots with 'automatically mix audio' selected. If that is the base, based on my experience, the audio will not be active unless the shot is. By deselecting that option the audio setting is always in its last state, meaning if you have it routed to the master bus it will stay there. Thus, we do not use the 'automatically mix audio' option and use triggers to manipulate the audio as needed.
michaelrb  
#18 Posted : Thursday, March 22, 2018 1:16:17 PM(UTC)
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Do you think Blizz can be used instead of vmixcall?
TuesdaysLive  
#19 Posted : Thursday, March 22, 2018 2:02:47 PM(UTC)
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michaelrb wrote:
Do you think Blizz can be used instead of vmixcall?


Using Blizz instead of vMix Call would have the same issues that other third party applications have (i.e., Skype, Zoom, other WebRTC, etc.) - You'd still have to configure your system to return mix minus audio to the callers.
rowby  
#20 Posted : Thursday, March 22, 2018 2:45:24 PM(UTC)
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After experimenting with Blizz I have decided only to use its screen share (and application share) feature. Not the webcam or audio. Audio can be muted within Blizz. So no audio at all will come my way.

SO I will still use vMix Call for the webcam and use Blizz only for desktop sharing..

I like the way Blizz lets me switch presenters. So that's all I would be using in blizz. So no mix minus issues. No issues of matching lip sinc.

Rowby
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