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HI, Used the 3 connect sparks last weekend on a Football game. 3 spark (SDI) 3 sony x70 PC: Intel i7-4710HQ; GeForce GTX 760: 16gb; 480 SSD Experience: 1- The quality from the spark units were great, couldn't tell the diference from the SDI capture. 2- For some reason could get it to work in 1080P 60 only in 1080i60 with the Sony x70 cameras.. 3- In vmix all 3 cameras would be in sync. all 3 would be completely out of sync. 4- I dont know yet what the problem was but all three cameras kept freezing on vmix during the game, I had to keep putting them back into vmix, but they kept freezing again. 5- I experience a a lot more use of the processor tag usual. 45% to 60% percent usage. back at the office im testing with some ptr cameras and experiencing more delay with cameras again. alexandrelinhares1 attached the following image(s):  21463180_1485500804865751_8157915893406622916_n.jpg (34kb) downloaded 5 time(s).You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
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I am having a similar problem and am about to put a plea for help out to the group. If I connect to one source (one IP address) things are buttery smooth. I connected to two using multiple NIC cards (a total of three Ethernet ports, each directly plugged to the wall and the campus network)and had good results... for about a half hour. Then all the streams except the last added became very staccato with skipped frames. In my case, I used a TriCaster at the other end of campus to send four streams and then added two NDI feeds from a graphics machine (one After Effects and one Premiere from the same machine). The cameras became obviously impaired but the graphics stayed smooth. Our last game, the four cameras on the TriCaster stayed smooth but the graphics overlays (After Effects and Premiere) were impaired - exactly the opposite of yesterday's test. We have two NewTek Sparks and BirdDogs for testing - but if there is a major bug in the NDI so we can only have ONE IP address, how exactly can we do multi-camera production? I found this article on the vMix forums: https://forums.vmix.com/default.aspx?g=search#0|5 Has any one had any luck with multiple NDI devices connecting and working well?
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Quote:Has any one had any luck with multiple NDI devices connecting and working well? It seems you do understand how IP networks work. You only need to connect all your equipments to YOUR switch. Relying on shared networks will only drive you nowhere. Also I don't understand why you used 3 different NICs, that's just wrong... As of IP addressing, if you don't create and use YOUR OWN LAN for production, you're just in a deadend. Each Spark should be given an IP address in your LAN, so that all your devices can communicate together. @Alexandre I did not understand everything you said about being in/out of sync... I assume you meant the 3 cams were out of sync when using Spark, right ? Please give us details about your IP infrastructure for this production. As I explained above, IP Video relies on IT infrastructure. Freezes and other problems are usually caused by wrong network setups or bandwidth issues. Guillaume
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Videoguy16x9 wrote:I am having a similar problem and am about to put a plea for help out to the group. If I connect to one source (one IP address) things are buttery smooth. I connected to two using multiple NIC cards (a total of three Ethernet ports, each directly plugged to the wall and the campus network)and had good results... for about a half hour. Then all the streams except the last added became very staccato with skipped frames. In my case, I used a TriCaster at the other end of campus to send four streams and then added two NDI feeds from a graphics machine (one After Effects and one Premiere from the same machine). The cameras became obviously impaired but the graphics stayed smooth. Our last game, the four cameras on the TriCaster stayed smooth but the graphics overlays (After Effects and Premiere) were impaired - exactly the opposite of yesterday's test. We have two NewTek Sparks and BirdDogs for testing - but if there is a major bug in the NDI so we can only have ONE IP address, how exactly can we do multi-camera production? I found this article on the vMix forums: https://forums.vmix.com/default.aspx?g=search#0|5 Has any one had any luck with multiple NDI devices connecting and working well? What kind of switch on your network? This the network shared with other data? I'm at a event right now with a IP Series, Connect, Spark, PTZ1 camera, TalkShow, 3PLAY, MediaDS, VLC sources, LiveU, Panasonic PTZ (with NDI beta firmware), NDI Scan Converter inputs, in total about 25 sources coming into my system. No problem and the equipment has been running for 6 hours with all of this connected. Now I do have 10Gb Ethernet (NetGear ProSafe 3300) to handle this many sources, but as long as your switch can handle it and you have the bandwidth there is no reason that you can't get four streams of NDI into TriCaster (you can get up to 8 or more depending on the model). Kane Peterson NewTek
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alexandrelinhares1 wrote:HI,
Used the 3 connect sparks last weekend on a Football game.
3 spark (SDI)
3 sony x70
PC: Intel i7-4710HQ; GeForce GTX 760: 16gb; 480 SSD
Experience:
1- The quality from the spark units were great, couldn't tell the diference from the SDI capture.
2- For some reason could get it to work in 1080P 60 only in 1080i60 with the Sony x70 cameras..
3- In vmix all 3 cameras would be in sync. all 3 would be completely out of sync.
4- I dont know yet what the problem was but all three cameras kept freezing on vmix during the game, I had to keep putting them back into vmix, but they kept freezing again.
5- I experience a a lot more use of the processor tag usual. 45% to 60% percent usage.
back at the office im testing with some ptr cameras and experiencing more delay with cameras again.
- What sort of delays/latency are you experiencing? - #3 - Are you saying they are in sync or out of sync with NDI?
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The other issue with freezing is to look at how you are bringing the signal into your network. Is it over a cable or wireless. If it is wireless, is it on a shared network? What is the signal strength, is it b,g,n,a,c and is there clear line of sight between the spark and the access point? I too love being on the cutting edge with tech, but is is good practice to make one small change at a time to your setup, test, test, and test again, then make the next change when you are certain that the first one has worked. Also as DWAM suggests, make certain you have a good understanding of IP networking and the supporting technology. It is more complicated than simply plugging in a camera and expecting it to work seamlessly.
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lael wrote:alexandrelinhares1 wrote:HI,
Used the 3 connect sparks last weekend on a Football game.
3 spark (SDI)
3 sony x70
PC: Intel i7-4710HQ; GeForce GTX 760: 16gb; 480 SSD
Experience:
1- The quality from the spark units were great, couldn't tell the diference from the SDI capture.
2- For some reason could get it to work in 1080P 60 only in 1080i60 with the Sony x70 cameras..
3- In vmix all 3 cameras would be in sync. all 3 would be completely out of sync.
4- I dont know yet what the problem was but all three cameras kept freezing on vmix during the game, I had to keep putting them back into vmix, but they kept freezing again.
5- I experience a a lot more use of the processor tag usual. 45% to 60% percent usage.
back at the office im testing with some ptr cameras and experiencing more delay with cameras again.
- What sort of delays/latency are you experiencing? - #3 - Are you saying they are in sync or out of sync with NDI? - The Latency sometimes were about 3 to 4 seconds - They were not in sync. Maybe because I had to re insert them into Vmix all the time during the game. The picture shows a map with what we used and how. [img][/img] alexandrelinhares1 attached the following image(s): Mapa de Transmissao NDI.jpg (1,316kb) downloaded 37 time(s).You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
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Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC) Posts: 2,721 Location: Bordeaux, France Thanks: 243 times
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Bom dia Alex
2 questions about your diagram:
- were you in your own lan? or a shared one? I don't see no dhcp service or gateway router (except maybe what you indicated as link internet)...
- why use a second switch instead of plugging everything to the main one ?
One advice :
if you plan to rely on NDI for production, get a real switch. Those are toys...
Guillaume
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DWAM wrote:Bom dia Alex
2 questions about your diagram:
- were you in your own lan? or a shared one? I don't see no dhcp service or gateway router (except maybe what you indicated as link internet)...
- why use a second switch instead of plugging everything to the main one ?
One advice :
if you plan to rely on NDI for production, get a real switch. Those are toys...
Guillaume - Yes that was our on lan. We used the internet provider router as the dhcp - The second one was to give us wireless internet. Do you think that the switches that we used were the cause of the freezing?
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC) Posts: 2,721 Location: Bordeaux, France Thanks: 243 times
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Quote:The second one was to give us wireless internet. What are you talking about? Use a switch to get wireless internet!!! Absolute non-sense! I don't see any wireless AP on your diagram. Were you using wireless for some devices at the same time? Are you sure the Sparks were not using wireless connection instead of going thru the wired connection? Quote:Do you think that the switches that we used were the cause of the freezing? I don't know but possibly. These switches are toys and the use of the second one cascading to the main was no help for sure... Also make sure all your ethernet cables are good CAT5e or better CAT6. Besides I still don't understand why you're talking of going wireless, so it's not clear to me what you really did. Make sure wireless is not set on the Sparks if you want to use them over cables. This could explain why you had so much latency too... Regarding the out-of-sync issue, I don't want to formulate no opinion as I don't use Spark myself, but this is common issue with IP streaming protocols. Spark is very new, I heard updates were available lately. Did you update your firmwares? Guillaume
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DWAM wrote:Quote:The second one was to give us wireless internet. What are you talking about? Use a switch to get wireless internet!!! Absolute non-sense! I don't see any wireless AP on your diagram. Were you using wireless for some devices at the same time? Are you sure the Sparks were not using wireless connection instead of going thru the wired connection? Quote:Do you think that the switches that we used were the cause of the freezing? I don't know but possibly. These switches are toys and the use of the second one cascading to the main was no help for sure... Also make sure all your ethernet cables are good CAT5e or better CAT6. Besides I still don't understand why you're talking of going wireless, so it's not clear to me what you really did. Make sure wireless is not set on the Sparks if you want to use them over cables. This could explain why you had so much latency too... Regarding the out-of-sync issue, I don't want to formulate no opinion as I don't use Spark myself, but this is common issue with IP streaming protocols. Spark is very new, I heard updates were available lately. Did you update your firmwares? Guillaume Sorry for the confusion. We have also plugged in a wifi router so that we could have access to the internet on our phones. We did not use the sparks on wifi, we didn't even leve the anttenas on. We thought that we could use two switches, one in the field for two cameras and then bring only one cat5 cable to a second switch where everything else was plugged in (including another a third spark.)
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC) Posts: 2,721 Location: Bordeaux, France Thanks: 243 times
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Quote:We thought that we could use two switches, one in the field for two cameras and then bring only one cat5 cable to a second switch where everything else was plugged in (including another a third spark.) This is a very bad idea. Don't do that unless your switches have a special uplink port for that. Try to borrow or buy a professional switch and make more tests. And read again all the advices I gave before (cables, one switch only, etc...) Good luck Guillaume
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DWAM wrote:Quote:We thought that we could use two switches, one in the field for two cameras and then bring only one cat5 cable to a second switch where everything else was plugged in (including another a third spark.) This is a very bad idea. Don't do that unless your switches have a special uplink port for that. Try to borrow or buy a professional switch and make more tests. And read again all the advices I gave before (cables, one switch only, etc...) Good luck Guillaume I see!! so to be able to use two swtches I would need what kind of swtch you would recommend? we do alto of live streaming in places very far from the cameras so I thought of this solution using two switches.
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Cascading switches will cost a lot and it's still a bad idea...
Better take a good rackable 16 ports gigabit switch with POE and plug everything on it. It will work well and cost much less. Brands are Cisco, Ubiquiti, Netgear, Linsys, TPLink... Price is from $150 to $300 or so...
If the cameras are far away, buy 100m ethernet cables in a barrel...
But as I said before, NDI is more expensive than SDI, so think what you really want to do...
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DWAM wrote:Cascading switches will cost a lot and it's still a bad idea...
Better take a good rackable 16 ports gigabit switch with POE and plug everything on it. It will work well and cost much less. Brands are Cisco, Ubiquiti, Netgear, Linsys, TPLink... Price is from $150 to $300 or so...
If the cameras are far away, buy 100m ethernet cables in a barrel...
But as I said before, NDI is more expensive than SDI, so think what you really want to do... Thanks so much for the help! I already have 100m cat5 cables, a lot times my distances are greater than that. NDi has helped me a lot with setup time, and I thought that with a switch in one place bringing fiber or cat5 cable would bring all the ndi inputs from one location into another using one cable connection thru the network.
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 3/20/2014(UTC) Posts: 2,721 Location: Bordeaux, France Thanks: 243 times
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If you really need more than 100m cable runs, I don't think NDI is the way to go. Fiber would be cheaper and more reliable, as well as provide full signnal quality and zero latency.
Now you can find good and affordable fiber converters and 1 meter is less than $1 (so approx. the same as good shielded CAT6)
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