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mjgraves  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, February 8, 2017 5:40:31 PM(UTC)
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While it may not be interesting to everyone, Logitech has just launched a new 4k webcam that they call Brio. It's a USB 3.0 device capable of 4K30, 1080p60, etc.

https://www.mgraves.org/...-the-brio-4k-pro-webcam/

It doesn't have onboard compression, which implies that it's delivering 4:2:0 encoded YUY2. Although it may be able to deliver 4:2:2 using MJPEG.

I've been promised a sample for evaluation.

Does anyone know if I must upgrade my vMix license to access a 4K source, even if the project is output in 1080p?

It might be interesting to try a 4K source downsampled to 1080p. That has potential to improve green screen quality.
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madness on 2/9/2017(UTC)
SHMD  
#2 Posted : Thursday, February 9, 2017 7:19:41 AM(UTC)
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mjgraves wrote:
While it may not be interesting to everyone, Logitech has just launched a new 4k webcam that they call Brio. It's a USB 3.0 device capable of 4K30, 1080p60, etc.

It might be interesting to try a 4K source downsampled to 1080p. That has potential to improve green screen quality.


@mjgraves
Would be great if vmix brings in the 4K that you can scale down to emulate pan a zoom shots with merge transitions in 1080 and 720 projects.

Keep us posted when you do the tests, as this would make a great stationary camera option.

-s
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mjgraves on 2/9/2017(UTC)
AlanZ  
#3 Posted : Thursday, February 9, 2017 8:22:42 AM(UTC)
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That's exactly the way I want to use 4K. I will be hosting a panel discussion at a symposium in a few months, and it would be great to set up one camera pointed towards the dais, and easily switch to close up view of the active panelist.

Sort of what Mevo does, but controlling the switching through vmix.
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SHMD on 2/10/2017(UTC)
mjgraves  
#4 Posted : Thursday, February 9, 2017 10:15:14 AM(UTC)
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I had a briefing from Logitech last week. They report that when operating at 1080p or 720p the digital zoomed video is very good, the result of staying near 1:1 sensor pixel to output size. Don't expect PTZ control, or any kind of PTZ emulation.

In a discussion with a friend who is a telecom pundit, he revealed that the camera is capable of MJPEG. That's key to getting 4K over USB 3.

There's some hope that it might have 4:2:2 sampling and not 4:2:0.

Even at 5 gbps, 4K uncompressed is a lot of pixels. 8.8 mpixels in fact.
ask  
#5 Posted : Thursday, February 9, 2017 3:32:23 PM(UTC)
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mjgraves  
#6 Posted : Friday, February 10, 2017 10:45:16 PM(UTC)
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Yesterday I discussed this camera with a friend who is a serious video conferencing/UC pundit.

https://talkingpointz.com/logi-brio-4k-webcam/

Logitech today advised that they've sent me a sample to evaluate. the notes the sent have confirmed that it delivers 4K30 using MJPEG to pass the USB 3 link.
mashynewie2  
#7 Posted : Saturday, February 25, 2017 4:49:39 AM(UTC)
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VIDEO REVIEW:


SAMPLE 4K 30FPS VIDEO:


SAMPLE 1080p 60FPS:


UNBOXING:

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stigaard on 2/25/2017(UTC), madness on 2/25/2017(UTC), SportsNetUSA.net on 2/25/2017(UTC)
mjgraves  
#8 Posted : Saturday, February 25, 2017 7:57:10 PM(UTC)
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Had to turn the volume down cuz he's kinda annoying. It would have been nice had he mentioned how he was recording the video.

I've found that my older i5 laptop can record 4K30 to disk. But that's about it. No streaming at the same time.

Compared to the C920 or C930e the Brio does a much better job with high contrast scenes. My office has two terrace doors that let in a ton of sunlight. The Bria handles that without turning into white smudges the way the older models do.

It needs a really fast PC to do it justice, but so far it looks like the best webcam that's ever been offered.

I will eventually do a more complete review, but in order to do it justice I've ordered a new desktop. My old one simply can deliver 1080p or higher.

I should say that one of the reasons I switched from Wirecast to vMix was the fact that vMix is so much more efficient in the use of hardware resources. I probably got another year from my old desktop by switching to vMix.
AlanZ  
#9 Posted : Friday, March 3, 2017 4:52:44 PM(UTC)
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So has anyone with Vmix 4K had a chance to test with the Logitech Brio?

I have been playing with the Brio on my HD license, but really want to know how it performs when outputting to 720p when vmix can see it as a 4K camera...

Can we get a good crops of sections of the incoming 4K image... a lossless zoom up to 4X when outputting to 720 or 1080p?
Does Vmix take the original incoming pixels and let us select a subset when "zooming" (hopefully), or does vmix convert to the output resolution and then simply magnify that image (hopefully not).

I am ready to upgrade to 4K, if I can use the Brio to capture a wide shot of a dais of 4 people, an then have multi-view or virtual inputs that crop to each individual panelist. If it remains sharp, I'll jump at it, as it avoids going to a camcorder with an optical zoom.
madness  
#10 Posted : Friday, March 3, 2017 11:47:05 PM(UTC)
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I purchased the Brio (received today), and upgraded to the vMix 4k recently. FYI, I can't get it to input anything higher than 1080 in vMix.

In the input settings, I set the zoom to 5, and the image quality compared to the full zoom of the c930e for comparison, was much better than the c930e. Much sharper image.

I did find I preferred the 1080 29.97fps over the 1080 59.94, as the higher frame rate caused more stuttering of the video.
Backwards, I know, but this is on an old ASUS p6T deluxe v2 with a xeon x5680 hex core processor with hyper-threading, 18GB memory, and a GTX 970 GFX card.

I'm outputting vMix @ 1080p, with an Amcrest PTZ camera input @1080, The Brio @ 1080, The C930e @ 1080, a C920 @ 1080, and a lifecam studio @ 1080. Render time is 7-8ms with activity in all cameras, and the vMix CPU is topping out at 21%.

The Brio is an excellent replacement for one of my c270 webcams, but a bit pricey for not being able to access the full resolution.

One thing I noticed is it's closeup resolution is outstanding. I took a wine cork to within 3 inches of the brio, and it's text was very sharp, unlike the c930e.
h2video.nl  
#11 Posted : Saturday, March 4, 2017 1:55:58 AM(UTC)
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hi madness,

can you control framerate etc at all on the webcam.

with the c920 it is hard to do: there is no setting just guessing and looking at what really comes in to vmix.

i set all settings by hand through vmix control, disable all automatcs, lighting, exposure etc. aim for a 60hz screen to check banding and set the cam according to what i see ( banding flickering etc) and then set that for the c920 and check incomming framerates.

the base framerate is usually progressive and something like 30. thats what i aim for. but with low light the webcam will lower framerate to compensate... so you have to disable that.

what is your experience with c920 compared with this new device...

4k sounds nice but would only be usefull if you can get it into vmix at that resolution and do the zooming and panning from within vmix dont you think.

h2video.nl  
#12 Posted : Saturday, March 4, 2017 2:41:57 AM(UTC)
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and did you inout the camera in a usb3 port? thats required for 4k to work.
mjgraves  
#13 Posted : Saturday, March 4, 2017 11:29:11 AM(UTC)
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To get 4K30 from Brio you must be connected to a USB 3 port. Also, you must select MJPEG encoding for the source in vMix.

There is no control of frame rate. It will do the best it can for a given resolution and connection speed. It's reportedly to be capable of 720p90.

It does a nice job. I will eventually write a full length review, but I must wait for my new PC to arrive before I can really give it a workout. My existing vMix PC is simply too slow to go beyond 1080p30. Most of my work remains at 720p30 or 60.
madness  
#14 Posted : Saturday, March 4, 2017 12:53:59 PM(UTC)
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To be clear, I have a Dedicated 4 port USB3 PCIe interface in which all my webcams are connected.
https://www.amazon.com/H...mp;keywords=usb3+rocket.

As for controlling the frame rate, I was not aware this could be done outside the presets while setting up the inputs.
I always configure as 29.97, or 59.94. On occasion I have also configured as film 24 FPS.

Of the Brio, The C920, and the C930e, I rank image quality as follows.

Brio, best
C930e next best after tweaking configuration to smooth video
C920 Easier to configure than the C930e, but image isn't as good as c930e IMO.

Refer back to this post...
https://forums.vmix.com/....aspx?g=posts&t=3645
madness  
#15 Posted : Saturday, March 4, 2017 7:00:19 PM(UTC)
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All right, I tried it on my new MSI GT72 Dominator Laptop with 6 USB3 ports.
https://www.amazon.com/g...ilpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I was able to add as a 4k camera input at 29.97 fps and using mjpeg, but it was almost a full second of latency.

It may well be that the reason I can't get 4k on the desktop system is because I have a USB3 extension cable between the camera and the PC.
https://www.amazon.com/P...rs+usb3+active+extension

That being the case, 1080 may well be the best it can do.

Logitech FAQ does state that an extension is not recommended. The cable that comes with the camera is approx 6 feet in length.
mjgraves  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, March 7, 2017 11:02:22 PM(UTC)
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I have been able to use Brio at 4k30 with zero latency. It only supports MJPEG at 4K.

It taxes my old laptop, which is running the vMix trial. The license on my production vMix system doesn't support 4k.

I'm awaiting the arrival of a new production system to more fully explore what Brio can do.

The improved handling of highlights & lowlights is worth the price, even at 720p or 1080p.
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SHMD on 3/8/2017(UTC), madness on 3/9/2017(UTC)
madness  
#17 Posted : Thursday, March 9, 2017 9:56:06 AM(UTC)
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Thanks to Micro$oft, The latest Insider update has broken the Brio driver. Currently it doesn't run on either system.
I've been instructed to do the install with the USB video driver to replace the missing file and then re install as the Logitech Brio to get it back. Thanks M$ for Fing my setup once again!
mjgraves  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, April 11, 2017 11:40:34 AM(UTC)
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On my new desktop the Logitech Brio runs fine. It must be connected to a USB 3.0 port to achieve 4k30. It's better to not use a USB 3.0 hub or extender.

If I also have the C922 webcam connected the Logitech Camera Settings app does not find the Brio. With out that app available you lose control of the digital PTZ, color settings, field of view, etc. It does retain the last known settings.

If the Logitech Camera Settings app is running (and shows a preview of the cameras's stream) you cannot add Brio to your vMix project. vMix complains that the system is resource deprived. Close the Settings app and vMix can get the stream from the camera.

Thereafter, open the Settings app and you will NOT see the camera preview, but you will have live PTZ control from the Settings app. PTZ control from vMix does not work.

Also, after loading their utility for Windows Hello I can log into my vMix machine by simply letting the camera see my face.

The image quality is good, but not spectacular. The detail is good but it's a bit noisy.

AlanZ  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, April 11, 2017 4:42:28 PM(UTC)
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I am struggling with my Brio with vMix 4K edition..

It appears to have a delay when used in my setup.

Vmix is set to output 1280x720 30fps

My Brio is attached directly to a usb 3.0 port on an MSI gaming computer (4 core I7 with a 960 graphics chip)

I've tried "Default" and "MJPG" formats, no apparent difference.
I've tried it with and without the Logitech camera controller.
I've tried 3840 and 4K resolutions

The closest I get when using the Brio and a C930e is that the Brio lags behind by about 1/2 second and generally seems to be a bit sluggish.

Any thoughts about how to get the most of out this camera are appreciated.
mjgraves  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, April 11, 2017 10:44:45 PM(UTC)
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AlanZ wrote:

Vmix is set to output 1280x720 30fps

I've tried 3840 and 4K resolutions


I noticed this as well. vMix seems to take some time when it must down sample the webcam stream. If you set the Brio to the same resolution as the project you won't see that lag.

In cases where real-time performance is critical, like video conferencing, this will make it impractical to use different portions of a 4K wide shot as various, different, lower-resolution scenes.

I'd be curious to know the process by which vMix does such down sampling. It seems that it's a circuitous path, or perhaps involves some buffering.
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