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Vlman  
#1 Posted : Monday, January 16, 2017 3:30:26 AM(UTC)
Vlman

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I have a bit of what seems a unique setup.

My PC is a Dell OptiPlex 790 desktop tower with a Nvidia Quadro K4200 GPU card sitting inside. Running Windows 7 & 10 64bit (dual boot) on i3/8GB Ram/SSD.


There's alot of talk on the forums about the Nvidia GeForce cards (and even some AMD ones too) but what I haven't seen is any info about what kind of support one would receive from a Quadro card.

The K4200 GPU is a 3 year old card now, based on the Kepler chip (also seen in as low as the GTX 650). But it is still a decent card. 4GB Ram on board says alot. Spec requirements on vMix's website only point towards GeForce cards. But How much are the Quadro series really supported? In particular, what kind of performance should I expect from this model. Should I swap it out for a GeForce model instead? It does seem like the Quadro series is exactly what vMix should be designed upon - A benchmark product for professional video/CAD software.

Some of the issues I experience with this GPU in vMix...

When I enable the "hardware encoder" option in Stream settings, it takes a huge load off the CPU, as expected when streaming using GPU. But if enable that same feature under the MP4 recording option in Recording settings, the CPU is high when recording, noting to me that it's not utilising the GPU. But If I select FFMPEG in the Recording settings, and select the "MP4 NVENC" profile, I get minimal CPU usage. Any reason why this is?

Is vMix using raw GPU acceleration or just the NVENC chip in the card?

What does this mean for trying to use a AMD GPU instead?

These are the some of the questions that are bugging me.

I've also found what seems like a small bug in vMix, maybe likely nothing to do with the Quadro card in particular.
The Dell OptiPlex series (with the latest Bios) allows support for utilising BOTH the HD Graphics GPU embedded on Intel's CPU AND a discreet card AT THE SAME TIME. This means I can combine the 2 display outputs from the Motherboard with the 3 display outputs on the Quadro card, 4 on this card if I use a DisplayPort MST Hub. That potentially allows a total of 6 display outputs to be used simultaneously from this system. Plugging in a monitor into one of the Motherboard outputs before booting tells the Bios to enable both GPUs and both Windows 7 and 10 sees them and functions properly.

Everything in vMix seems to function optimally as it should when selecting the Nvidia card as the card to use.
The only issue I have, vMix doesn't allow desktop capture of any open application. If I select an application to capture, it displays black. It does however allow full-screen desktop capture. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but I'm guessing this setup is an area not visited by the devs as of yet. If I was to have the ability to capture applications in this setup, it would be absolutely perfect.

Any thoughts are welcome and thank you in advance for your help.
Mathijs  
#2 Posted : Monday, January 16, 2017 8:00:43 AM(UTC)
Mathijs

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Most of us are indeed using the gaming cards because of the costs. The only thing you get extra from Quadro instead of GF, is more than 2 nvenc encodes at the same time, as that is a hard limit on the gaming cards. If your Quadro compares to the 6xx series, it should be able to give vMix enough resources to run a decent production.
Please test and see how far you can take it before you end up higher than 20 msec render time. Also let us know how many nvenc encodes you can do at the same time. I do not know why the mp4 with hardware acceleration does not take load off your cpu. I don't record mp4's directly on my system, but use the 2 nvenc encodes my videocard provides for streaming. Without nvenc h.264 is a big resource hog, and not really an editing format, so before I used the magicyuv and lately the newtek ndi codec that you can make available by installing the free NDI tools on your system. Perfect quality with more than 3 times less diskspace compared with magicyuv and also much lighter on cpu.
I can start 8 multicordings, program recording, streaming with nvenc, etc with around 15% cpu usage on a 6-core xeon. In other words I can switch everything on without overloading the machine. That was just not possible before vmix 18.
IceStream  
#3 Posted : Monday, January 16, 2017 4:01:36 PM(UTC)
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@ Vlman

First off, I am by no means technically savy in these matters, but these are my understandings in this debate (i.e. Quadro vs GeForce).
- vMix is designed to take advantage of "Gaming Technology" which GeForce cards and drivers are optimized for.
- Quadro cards are designed primarily for professional graphics applications (CAD, CGI, SFX and video editing) and hence, typically have more horsepower and features compared to their counterpart GeForce cousins for those applications, and so cost significantly more but are not necessarily optimized for gaming and often "underperform" compared to said cousins in games (although the lines are blurring in newer generation Quadro cards providing support for DirectX).
- Again, I am not familiar with the technological differences in the cards' architecture, but I suspect vMix is unlikely to take complete advantage of Quadro card capabilities at this time as the focus is more on "Gaming" technology and less on high end rendering and computational calculations.

If you have the need for the high end performance of a Quadro card for such professional graphic applications, then by all means, stick with the Quadro as you should be able to receive "decent" performance from recent generation cards in vMix, just not optimal. In general, on a cost/performance analysis, when it comes to vMix, Geforce is the way to go.

Just my thoughts.


Ice
Vlman  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, January 17, 2017 6:03:15 AM(UTC)
Vlman

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Wow... thank you guys

@ Ice

I believe that the Kepler-designed Quadro cards only allow a maximum of 2 NVENC sources - only the newer Quadro cards (Maxwell) allow upto 4, but I'll double check that. My K4200 model really seems like it was more designed with CAD/CGI/SFX and other "CUDA" applications in mind, so it definitely seems like you're right there. Since vMix doesn't (currently) take advantage of CUDA cores and only utilises DX10 and NVENC, having a Quadro card is like overkill to vMix, especially when you consider how much these things cost. But what does this mean for AMD cards then? Clearly NVENC isn't supported on those cards, but they support DX10 (the new models support even DX12!) I was considering one of the latest Polaris models - RX4xx series. They have an HEVC/H.265 hardware encoder. And they cost less than the equivalent Nvidia models 1060/1070 and are clearly powered more efficiently - 14nm process. But Does vMix support AMD's version of "NVENC"? AMD name it VCE.


@Mathijs

I'll test my results and report back here.
But Thank you so much for this! I can't believe that you are able to do all of that on ONE PC! Previously, I thought one would either had to have a beast of a machine to use the multicorder, or use NDI/Desktop Capture to share the load onto several PCs in order to record multiple feeds. I never knew NDI actually offered a codec for recording... And you say this is possible with the latest vMix 18 and free NDI Tools? Wow, it's 2017 guys... I need to wake up and smell the coffee! How many cameras do you have then? And what GF card are you using? I have a few h.264 cameras set up to vMix, all connected via powered 1Gbps ethernet (PoE). Yes latency! but costs/equipment used to set this up are down to the minimum. 1080p. Is it possible to use the GPU in some way (maybe 3rd party software) to chop down this latency? I know alot of it simply comes from using ethernet, and the way ethernet works etc, but I thought I'd throw it out there because.. hey, It's 2017 guys!
itiztv  
#5 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2017 7:42:28 AM(UTC)
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It's quite depressing to read this. I just procured a HP Z240 unit that comes with a quadro k1200, and if I understand what you guys are saying correctly; I have to buy a new graphics card?

HP Z240 SFF

Is this inadequate to handle vmix? I don't have the unit here to run tests yet
zenvideo  
#6 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2017 8:10:20 AM(UTC)
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itiztv wrote:
It's quite depressing to read this. I just procured a HP Z240 unit that comes with a quadro k1200, and if I understand what you guys are saying correctly; I have to buy a new graphics card?

Is this inadequate to handle vmix? I don't have the unit here to run tests yet

I'd have thought it might be OK - I'd definitely try it first. It may not be as good value-for-money as an equivalent GTX-range model, and the performance is only about the level of a GTX460, but that used to be an acceptable card for performing real-time HD video effects processing in Premiere Pro CS5, so I wouldn't rule it out before testing.
thanks 1 user thanked zenvideo for this useful post.
itiztv on 1/20/2017(UTC)
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